Skip to content

The Call-In Show, Volume 3

Published on Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:00:00 +0000

It's been a hot minute, but it's time to hit the phones.

Synopsis

This episode of Hodinkee Radio is the third installment of their call-in show format, where hosts Stephen Pulvirent, Jack Forster, John Buse, and Cole Pennington answer listener questions about watches, collecting, and the industry. The discussion covers a wide range of topics submitted by their audience through voicemail.

The team tackles several substantive questions, including advice on building a three-watch collection under $5,000 (with differing philosophies ranging from spending most of the budget on one exceptional piece to spreading it more evenly), guidance on replacing vintage watch crystals and the ethics of modification, and thoughts on what each host would design if given the opportunity to collaborate with a watch brand. They also address a humorous but revealing question about the perfect first date watch, with Jack Forster offering sage advice to simply not wear a watch at all to avoid distraction.

A significant portion of the episode explores how the pandemic has affected both the watch industry and collecting community. The hosts discuss the rapid pivot to digital sales infrastructure, the loss of in-person trade shows and boutique experiences, and surprisingly, how the industry has shown growth despite these challenges. They note that while physical connection has been lost, the watch community has demonstrated resilience and creativity in maintaining connections virtually.

The episode concludes with a rapid-fire segment addressing specific watch comparison questions, including debates between the Cartier Santos versus JLC Reverso, Bulgari Octofinissimo in steel versus titanium, the Lange Saxonia Thin as a dress watch, and the contentious question of the new versus old Rolex Submariner. Throughout, the hosts demonstrate their deep knowledge while maintaining an accessible, conversational tone that balances technical expertise with practical collecting advice.

Transcript

Speaker
Stephen Pulvirent Give us your perfect first date watch and like a one or two sentence, like an elevator pitch of why you think it's the perfect first date watch. I have um
Jack Forster some very sort of serious fatherly advice uh that I would like to give as a guy with 30 years of happy marriage behind him to all of you out there who love watches and who are also in the dating pool, whatever you do, don't wear a watch to your first date because you will be looking at your watch. You will be tempted to talk about watches. And what you should be doing instead of that, and instead of potentially introducing into the conversation an awkward segue into your somewhat bizarre and expensive narrow bandwidth habit is you should be staring dreamily into the eyes of the person you are dating and not thinking about the topic
Stephen Pulvirent . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Pulverin and this is Hodinky Radio. Uh we realized it had been a hot minute since we'd done a call-in episode, so this week we're hitting you with volume three of the Hodinky Radio Callin show. We put out a push on social media last week and got dozens and dozens of awesome questions about basically every facet of watches, the watch industry, watch collecting, uh, and we put together a couple of our favorites. Um I got Jack, John, and Cole on the show to help me answer all of your questions. And then at the end, we're gonna do something a little different than what we've done last time. We got a lot of questions this time, people wanting to know, should I buy this watch or that watch? Is this the best watch in its category? So we do a little like semi-rapid fire there at the end uh and address some of those queries as well. This is super fun. I always really enjoy learning from my colleagues and learning from the questions you guys all ask. So I hope you enjoy it. Hopefully if you asked a question it gets answered. And without further ado, let's do this. Hey, Friday afternoon. Good to see everybody. Hey Steven. Good to see you. As usual, the pleasure is mine. Cole, you got some like rock formation stuff going on in your uh your zoom background. I assume you're not like chillin' in the middle of the desert right now. Um I wouldn't assume anything, to be honest, Stephen. Coles Coles are men of mystery. We never know where where uh you're you're our Carmen San Diego. We have no idea where you're exactly there. Where in the world is Carmen San Diego? John knows what I'm talking about. Uh we I used to watch the show, man. What was the band that made the song there was a band that did the song there Oh, it's a weird a cappella band. It was a whole thing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Cool. Well, this is the most culturally relevant start to uh to a call-in show we've ever had. Uh yeah, so we're back. We're doing another call-in show. This is volume three. Um I want to say thank you up front to everybody who called and left us voicemails. Um we got really amazing response. Uh I'm so sorry to the people whose questions aren't gonna be answered. Um but we're gonna get through as many as we can and then we're gonna do a little thing at the end this week that we haven't done before. Uh we we got a bunch of questions that were very watch specific and I don't think we need to have, you know, 10-minute debates, the four of us, this watch or that watch. You know, is this the best thing at its price point? Blah, blah, blah. But I think we can do a little like semi-rapid fire at the end and try to burn through a bunch of those. I think there's gonna be a lot of happy people to hear those answers. Is that that worked for you guys? Sure. Cool. Let's cue up the first question. Hey guys. My name is Brian M.
Caller (Various) Question. For somebody who is not looking to be a
John Buse watch collector but would like a three watch uh collection, what would be your suggestions on some brands to look at um for under a
Stephen Pulvirent five thousand dollar budget. Thank you. Yeah so this is an interesting one. Any question about like a building a collection or how to get started I personally just find really fascinating. And you know, we'll talk about some brands to pay attention to, but I also think it's worth while we have that discussion to talk about like what the composition of a three watch sub five thousand dollar collection should look like or could look like. Not that I want to tell anybody what their collection should be, but um I wonder maybe Jack, do you wanna start us off here? Like what are some brands under five that that make watches under five thousand dollars that you find particularly interesting right now? And then also like if you were just starting out and building a five watch uh three watch collection under five thousand dollars, like what would your what would your strategy be there? Like hit it hit us with some sage jack wisdom. Oh boy.
Jack Forster Well, I mean, obviously this is like a super tough question. And I mean the first part of it is something that's kind of philosophical. You know, um, should you should you spend the bulk of your money on one um you know one Great Wat watch and then a c aouple c ofouple of beaters, a couple of backup watches is should should you kind of spread the love around. And without getting into specific brands just yet, like I'm a really big fan of getting the best that you possibly can for the money that you've got. I just think that that's um you know, the path to satisfaction. And I would like I would much rather have one really great watch for four thousand bucks, a really great um, you know, beater dive watch for like, you know, five to eight, and then um and then a G Shock. Uh then three watches that are like, you know, $2,000 apiece. I mean you can go that way if you want. There's great watches for $2,000 too. Um and you have to kind of look at the like how much more are you getting for your you know extra two thousand bucks if you're spending four thousand with a thousand left over. But just in general, um get the best you can. Uh that's I think that's the best
Stephen Pulvirent way to avoid buyer's regret. I think that's I mean, Jack, I I think the way you've positioned the question is really interesting, which is like trying not to have buyers remorse, which is something that all of us watch collectors are are very used to. And so like I would even say like there's a very good chance if you have five thousand bucks and you're trying to buy three watches, it's a pretty good chance that one of those three watches like won't be in your collection in a year or two. Um, so don't go into it thinking you're probably gonna like have these three watches forever. Um but yeah, I I tend to agree with your approach, Jack. Like I I think having, you know, one $4,000 watch and then either like an Apple Watch or a G Shock uh and I don't know, something else is is not bad. Like you said, a diver, maybe like a Seiko diver or something like that. Yeah. Um I mean before I turn it over to the other guys, like uh
Jack Forster you know like in the shop right now there's a Grand Seiko hand round 37mm SBGW two thirty one. It's forty three hundred bucks. I would do that. And uh, you know, you've still got eight hundred bucks left to play with for a couple of beaters. You know, and that's a killer that's a killer watch from a real brand. I mean, you know, it's it's not gonna be everybody's cup of tea, but that's that's that's how I do it. Absolutely
John Buse , yeah. Yeah. The way I the way I see it is, you know, you um there are a couple of different ways you can split this. I think you can go for like the one four thousand dollar plus thing and then a couple of smaller things or you can kind of you can kind of tier it. Um I would probably advocate the uh the latter. Um so what I would probably do is uh go for something that will be like really affordable like a G Shock to just kind of like be your first and that that's a watch that you probably won't wear every day, but you might. It could be your daily watch. Certainly it'll be good for like if you want to wear a watch when you go running and stuff like that. And then it's like, all right, you're probably gonna want some kind of a dress watch or something that you can wear like in and look look decent when you put a jacket on um back when people are like dressing up again to do stuff. Um and so you could get maybe like a vintage steel dress watch for a little bit less or spend more money and get a really nice value in a gold dress watch uh vintage, something like from IWC or AP or maybe even Vasharone, those will cost a little bit more money than than the IWC. Um and then that leaves you with so assume you yeah, assume you you go the uh the gold route and you spend about three thousand bucks on your um on your gold dress watch, uh you've still got like a thousand bucks plus to get like an excellent uh Seiko diver like what's the one James has like the SPD um I always forget the name yeah one four three or uh that to me is like that and that would probably be that would be your daily watch but it would be uh fantastic you
Cole Pennington know my my approach is a little bit different than than both of yours and i would say that you should look at what constitutes most of your time what do you spend most of your time doing and buy a watch that kind of fills that role. So for me, where you guys are saying, okay, Seiko beater, G Shock Beater, for me li the lifestyle live or whatever is a little bit too active to put all the money into the dress watch. Um I'll be wearing the watch most in active environments, so I wouldn't be afraid to kind of use the budget for the what would be considered the beater in other collections, like the active watch, which would be instead of SPB one four three, maybe go up to some of the SLA watches, which are like Seiko's recreations of historic models that are pricey. You know, they have the eight L35, 8L55 movements, this one Grand Seiko uh technology in there, Zeratsu polishing. So I wouldn't be afraid to to look at where you spend most of your time in life and then buy the watch that use the the the majority of the budget on the watch that fits that role. I think that's actually a
Stephen Pulvirent really, really fantastic point. Yeah, I think so too. And I think it's interesting that like the three of you guys came out of the gate with like three pretty different approaches. Like Jack's approach is find the best thing you can buy while still having enough money left over to have two other things. And I think, Jack, correct me if I'm wrong, like your ultimate, I think, decision would probably be like get a G Shock or a Swatch so that you have something you don't have to worry about, probably a G Shock, and then spend all of the money on one other really exceptional watch, right
Jack Forster ? Yeah, I mean that's absolutely right. I would I would probably cut it down to even a two watch collection. Um I mean you know and to Cole's point, what that uh what that best of the best is, you know, should obviously uh or maybe not obviously because Cole had to bring it up. Um, but you know, it really does depend on what your lifestyle is as a largely inert urbanite. My needs are not Cole's needs, but um but but I think it's a super super valid point. Um I mean like a hand wound um a handwound Grand Seiko plus a G Shock. And I think G Shocks are some of the coolest watches ever to come down the pike. That would that would do it for me for an awfully long time. You know, like I think about what I actually wear out of the watches that I've got. And it kind of boils down to something that's one version of that uh of the you know Grand Seiko and and um something that's you know basically a version of the G Shock. And I should say I got as much pleasure out of the out of the G Shock as I do out of the uh the the more much, much more expensive watch, just a different kind of pleasure.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of inclined to to go with you on this, Jack, and and I I think your addendum to uh adding in coles caveat which is that your your your big big purchase should be something that fits your lifestyle and then the other two should fit around that um but I I think John hit on a really interesting point which is that like this is where vintage stuff gets really helpful when you're trying to like create a a diverse collection on a budget. Um you know we talk about them all the time on this show, but like those C masters that you can get for under a thousand bucks something like a pole router which Cole knows really well like those are watches where like if you wanted to have a collection that was like even like an entry level omega you could even potentially get and then add a pole router on top or you could get uh like a gnomos and throw a UG into the mix like you could you could do some like fun interesting stuff here or even a Seiko diver a gnomos and a UG like you could you could really get creative here um but I think you know the brands we we didn't hit them directly but I think we've we've kind of name dropped them right like we're talking about the G Cassio G Shocks. We're talking about core Seiko, Seiko and Seiko prospects. We're talking about Gnomos. We're talking about entry level Omega. We're talking about Oris. Um, you know, there there's's lots of great watch there's actually more watches out there from the kind of like marquee marquee brands under five thousand dollars than I would have expected.
Jack Forster I think we're actually spoiled for choice right now. I mean, before we leave the subject, there is one other thing I want to bring up, you know, I mean to John's point about vintage. Um if you know what you I mean, if you if you're looking for something a little bit off the beaten path, you can find stuff out there that is just like mind-blowing. Um there's a a friend of mine who just bought uh a limited edition Omega Anniversary hand wound watch in a rose gold case uh with a new old stock caliber 269 hand wound movement. And um, you know, this is a watch that appeared before the watch internet. So basically nobody knows about it unless you're a hardcore, you know, um omega fan and omega collector. But you could not ask for a nicer gold dress watch with probably one of the best um you know series produced hand wound movements made during the entire twentieth century and he paid a little over five thousand bucks for it but I mean my jaw dropped when I saw this watch I was. like, oh my God, you just got to deal with this entry. You know? Ye
Stephen Pulvirent ah. Yeah. Well, you know what? I I wanna make sure we have time for some other questions. So I am gonna cut this one there, but I I think I mean this could be a whole episode. This could be, you know, 10,000 words uh spilled on the site. Um so we'll we'll address this more, I think, kind of in in tangential ways. Like this kind of info will come out. But uh yeah, hopefully hopefully I think we've given uh given this person a good good overview here. Um while we're on the topic of vintage I I wanna I want to bring in a vintage focus question here. So let's let's give that a listen. Hi, my name is John
Caller (Various) . Uh had a question for you. Um I have a uh a Breitling Chronomatic uh twenty one ten probably from the late nineteen seventies uh that recently developed a uh crack in the acrylic dome. And um I'm looking to get it replaced and I'm trying to find some information about whether that dome is specific to that model number um and needs a uh replacement uh new old stock uh dome for that or whether I can use a newer style acrylic dome. And uh yeah just generally how do I go about finding the uh dome that would fit that that tiepiece. I guess that's my question. Uh thanks a lot
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, that's that's a good question. And I wish I and we had a more like uh creative answer, but like the real answer is like you gotta take the watch to a watchmaker uh or like talk to some folks on a forum who may be able to help you find the right crystal. Um yeah, it's it's not there's no like fancy answer here. Um, but I think what this question made me think of is the broader issue of crystals and vintage watches in general. Um and I wanted to throw to you guys, like, is it okay? How how important is it to have the right crystal, like the actual correct crystal on a vintage watch? And is it ever okay to swap them on purpose? I mean, we see people do things like take submariners and GMTs and put super domes on them so that they don't have the cyclops. Like, is that cool or is that like swapping a bezel or swapping hands? So I'm gonna throw it open to the floor. Whoever, whoever has the strongest feeling should please jump in and tell me what's
Cole Pennington what. I think first you have to look at the why of the watch or why you have it or why you're even thinking about modifying it. If it's for fun, if you're A, you don't have a choice. You just need to throw a crystal in there, sure. And I a good example for me, I I used to do this actually with the SKX double seven, the monsters, throw the Seiko bubble boy crystals on there. That was when I was kind of first starting out. Now would I do it? No, because I kind of treat vintage as a like a a matter of record or whatever, kind of like uh it should be as close to the time as possible, the time that it appeared in. However, if it's just a fun watch, who cares? Like that's kind of where I'm at. As long as it works, right? As long as you're not letting water into the case and so forth. If it works, it works. That's about it
John Buse . No, I was going to say yeah I have great respect for um for uh people who uh want to maintain the way watches look. There I know some collectors and some dealers who have very strong feelings about not changing anything and really um preserving them kind of like as a record of uh how these things were made so that uh scholarship can be like done down down the road. Uh you know, having said all of that, if it's you know your watch and um you want to to modify it in some way, like I I have no problem with it at all. It's just like whatever makes you happy. Know though that if you want to turn around and sell it to someone else down the road, um it may complicate the matter for you
Jack Forster . Yeah, I think that I think that um you know those are both you know those are the two sides of the question that really matter, you know. I mean, the first is you know, it's your watch, obviously, you can do whatever the heck you want with it. Um, and it's always better to you know, sort of know how what you're doing might affect the value of the watch. It's important to know how what you're doing might affect the physical integrity of the watch. You know, a lot of the time you don't have any choice uh if you're collecting vintage but to change uh you know the watch the watch crystal I mean uh watch crystals are the most exposed part of the watch and they're also unfortunately one of the more fragile parts of the watch so um you know they uh have to be replaced um at least on a semi-regular basis depending on how you wear them I'm you know I'm kind of with coal in terms of I like watches to stay the way they were designed because I feel like they're a testimony in that in that way to a certain time in a certain place and a certain sensibility. But I also know that like, you know, the Seiko modding community is a giant Saco Modding community and people have a great time with it. And um I can't really bring myself to believe that some uh horrible, um, irreversible violation of the uh cultural trust of SKX 0007s is being destroyed if somebody you know pops a different crystal on it, you know, or a different bezel ring. Um but just you know like no no know what you're doing, know how know how it affects the watch. And like I mean if I saw a crystal that was like you know a gross, gross mismatch to a very design specific vintage watch that would probably bug the heck out of me, but I you know. It's not for me to tell somebody else what to do with their uh with their wristwatch. Or
Stephen Pulvirent is it? I mean it is literally your job, but uh I I don't know. For me I I I think I agree with you guys with one one addition and that's uh I would say if the watch has like historical value or like cultural value, like sure it's yours, you own it, you can do what you want with it, but like know that if you change something and it's irreversible, you're you're like taking one correct good thing out of the pool forever. Uh and like that matters. Like it's not, you know, we're not talking about, you know, destroying museum grade objects here. You know, we're not lighting monets on fire to make s'mores, but like this is this is like there are then gonna be fewer Samariners if you screw yours up, you know. Um what what I think is interesting is with things like crystals and bezels and bracelets, uh, and even hands, you know, like you can swap things and then swap them back. Uh there are ways to do it that are that's like no harm, no foul. Uh and that would be my recommendation. Uh would be like if you want a different crystal on your watch or in the case of this Brightling, like if you can't find the right crystal, like if you can find one that fits and is gonna keep it from getting dust and moisture underneath and stuff, like and you like how it looks, fine. Keep the original. Like just keep it. You know, like it's that easy. Uh and you know, I personally prefer, and I owned a GMT master for years. I personally like the GMT Master with a Cyclops. The Samariner, even when it has a date, I prefer it with a super dome crystal. Um, I wore one with a super dome for a couple weeks pretty early on in my watch career that that was lent to me from somebody. Uh, and so some of it I think is maybe just like nostalgia or like my own hang up but yeah my suggestion is like if you want to do that great go do it if you have a Pepsi GMT and you want to throw a root beer insert into it like fine if that makes you happy, great. Just like don't get rid of the other insert. You know, just keep it. It's not that hard. Uh it it really like it follows the uh I would say I I follow the mentality of like somebody restoring art or architecture, like just don't damage the original thing through your restoration and that's fine because we can then always undo your restoration later if we decide we don't like it, you know? Uh and that's that that would be my attack. I don't know. Yeah. Seems reasonable
Jack Forster the truth is if something's reversible, um then you know, all bets are off. You can do whatever whatever the heck you want, as long as you save the original part and as long as you don't do anything that can't uh that you know that
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah. All right. Let's uh let's see this one. I I really like this question. This question I can't tell if it was meant as a joke or not, but uh it kind of like tickled me, so we're gonna we're gonna answer it anyway. I I was wondering if you guys would happen to know which watch I should wear on a first date. Thanks. So I I I like this question because it gets to the heart of like what we're all doing with watches. Like it really cuts to the the core of it, which is like to a certain degree, it's a performance, right? Like you put on a watch and you're not just telling yourself how you think about your yourself in your life, you're telling everyone else. And and a first date is like the most acute example of that. Um, so whether it's a first date, whether it's a job interview, whether it's um meeting new friends, whether it's you know, going home to see family, whatever it is, like each of these situations has its own quirks of like what you should and shouldn't say with your watch. So I have an answer, but I don't want to spoil it. Let's go Jack, Cole, John, and then me. Give us your perfect first date watch and like a one or two sentence, like an elevator pitch of why you think it's the perfect first date watch. I have um some very sort of serious
Jack Forster fatherly advice uh that I would like to give um as a guy with 30 years of happy marriage behind him, to all of you out there who love watches and who are also in the dating pool, whatever you do, if you're a watch lover, don't wear a watch to your first date because you will be looking at your watch. You will be tempted to talk about watches. And what you should be doing instead of that, and instead of potentially introducing into the conversation an awkward segue into your somewhat bizarre and expensive narrow bandwidth habit is you should be staring dreamily into the eyes of the person you are dating and not thinking about the time
Stephen Pulvirent . Jack with the heater answer right off the top. I love it. Oh man. Now my answer, I'm just gonna look like a jabroni over here. Jeez. Uh all right, John. Where where are you going with that man? Sorry I put you after Jack
John Buse . Okay. Uh so I thought about this for a little bit and I'm just gonna go ahead and pick a watch and tell you why it why it's a good pick for a first state. Um and I'm gonna say uh I'm gonna say a moon watch. Speedmaster moon watch. And the reason I I say this is because it's, you know, it's a it's a it's a it's a very well-designed thing, but it's something that was made, you know, really to do a job to be legible, and that was ultimately taken uh you know by NASA to do a very specific thing, you know, go to the moon, go into space. Um so there's like there's a lot of story behind it, but then it's also a design that's kind of like stood the test of time. I think that most people like look at a moon watch and they're like, oh, that's that's an attractive thing, you know? Um and it's not like an ostentatious watch. It's not costing gonna unless it's like a a very rare uh or a vintage one or something. But if it's like a new one, it's with a Heselite crystal, it's a little bit more than six thousand dollars. Um so it just kind of communicates like, yeah, like I'm into I have a hobby. I'm into uh things. I I'm not like having to like mortgage my house to afford them. It's not, it's not like I have a problem, you know, it's it's just I have a an interest, you know. And um you know, watch collecting
Stephen Pulvirent Watch Collecting. I don't have a problem, I have an interest. That's that's the new tagline for Hodinky. Hodinky, I don't have a problem, I have an interest. I love that
John Buse . Thanks. Um but yeah, I mean but I would also heed Jack's point. Like please don't make don't don't spend more than a few a minute or two talking about your watch. If you if it unless uh unless your date is also into watches, in in which case spend lots of time talking about watches. Fair
Cole Pennington . Uh Cole, where are you where are you at on this? I'll be nice and succinct. There there is this TikTok video that went viral, like Yeah, you know the one I'm talking about, right? There was a young woman who kind of answered this question already and I would say like if you want to like the the the empirical way to go about this would be to ask the person sitting across from you and this TikTok video does give that point of view, right? So it's by some young woman I don't know her name. Maybe you could put in the show notes or something. But it did go viral. And she kind of answers this question already. So I would defer to her.
Stephen Pulvirent All right. So Cole's answer is in the show notes. Um I'm gonna give my my answer would be a vintage date just. Um it like to me it says like I'm successful, but I'm also not frivolous. I have an appreciation for like old important things, but like not in an ostentatious in-your-face way. Rolex, is it's it's a really nice thing that most people have no idea is anything. Uh and I think that's that's the kind of thing. Because if you go on this date, the person you go on the date with, if they notice, they're gonna be impressed. If they don't notice, then it's fine. You're not the weirdo who wore like a crazy watch to a first date. Watches not to wear on first dates, I would say like anything uh made of like a colorful, transparent uh sapphire, maybe. Maybe don't wear that. Uh, you know, I've been married way too long to have any idea what I'm talking about. But that's it. I mean, I think like date just for me is the move. Uh so you got you got four different directions there. Uh I would say like buyer buyer beware or listener beware uh picking your poison there. You know what this is this is a fun one. We're we're recording this right after uh our colleagues just teased on the site uh that there's a new limited edition coming. Uh so I think this this might be a fun a fun question. Hello, Dinky Radio. Uh Adam here
Caller (Various) , big fan of uh the show and the site and ever And question I have for you today is uh if you were able to design a watch for a particular company, which company would you want to pick and um any preliminary ideas of kind of what that watch would look like or if it would be something uh you know an iteration of an existing piece or something new. Just kinda wondering what you'd like to see from a company and what you'd like to do creatively. Thanks
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, I mean I think this is one like anyone into watches has thought about. Like if you could make the watch of your dreams, what would it be? So uh we don't have to get too too into the specifics. I also don't want to uh step on toes from any of our colleagues over in the hoodinky shop, uh, the folks who are like actually designing watches, um, which as far as I know, none of us on this call know about. Um but uh yeah, maybe John, you want to start us off here and like if you could pick a brand and then give us like the high level of like what from that brand you would want to work on
John Buse . I'd like to do something kind of uh with a with a day date. I'd like to do some kind of like language uh for the day that hasn't been done yet or that has been done very infrequently, some kind of and you know there's a great tradition of like onyx dials and texture dials and all kinds of cool stuff on on uh day dates. So swinging swinging for the fences, you're going you're going Rolex here. Yeah, exactly. Really swinging for the fences, but that would be a fun thing to to do something like that and make just have them make or ask them to make just one of them and and ha and wear that on my w
Stephen Pulvirent rist. All right. Peace unique piece unique day d Jack, what do you what do you put in steel, who knows? Peace unique steel day date from John Buse. Uh Jack, what do you what are you putting your energy into? What do you want to make? Well I'm a he
Jack Forster yfalutin fellow under the best of circumstances, and I think that what I would do is I would go to a certain gentleman who lives right now in rural splendor on the Isle of Man, and I would ask to do something with mister Roger Smith. And what that watch would be is uh it would be um essentially uh the kind of watch he's making right now, you know, with of course that wonderful uh integrated uh double uh coaxial scape wheel, just a wonderful, wonderful mechanism. But I would ask I would want to make one with a um with a Guyon balance and spring uh adjusted to uh you know better than chronometer specifications. So a a sp split by metallic, a balance wheel, and a Guyon balance spring. And I'd like there to be a moon phase on it as well, a high accuracy moon phase. And uh that would be kind of my dream watch. Um, there's a part of me that would want to leave the moon phase complication out, but on something like this, I would want to have something I think a little extra in there just to um just to give it a little romance. I actually asked a friend of mine many years ago how much a watch like this would cost uh if it were actually made, and he said uh it's it's it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and nobody would buy it. But you know, we can
Stephen Pulvirent dream. You know, that's what this is for, Jack. We're dreaming. I knew there was only only there were two directions you could go with that. You were either going Roger Smith or Cabinottier. Those were the only two answers from Jack. Yeah. That was the other that was the other direction it was going. Uh Cole, let's let's see what where you're going
Cole Pennington . I'll I'll go last here. Uh I will say just off the bat, like I'm just not a great designer. I don't really speak the language. So given that, I will just say one high level thing. I would love to explore white dials more, like a white dial explorer would be cool, or white dial GMT, which I think there was one, maybe the albine or whatever. Um, or yeah, just some white dialed Seiko's. Let's just say okay, polar dials, sure. Or the other thing that I think would be interesting would be to bring back double signing in a way that is not done that much. I mean, there's the Tiffany stuff, but that that can get a little ridiculous. I like when I see an old watch like maybe signed uh Surpiki Serpico Ileno, that old Venezuelan uh retailer. Yeah, that to me is like a little breadcrumb to go back and research and like that takes me back to a time in Venezuela that was totally different than it is today. So it would be cool if, you know, fifty years down the line or whatever, a watch from today can tell a story by wherever it's double signed. Um so I would say, yeah, those two things. I'm I'm not a designer, so I wouldn't want to mess with that too much, but I'd like to explore those two ideas
Stephen Pulvirent . Okay. That's fair. Uh I'm gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna mess with a classic here. Uh I would wanna go work with Cartier and I would wanna work on either a tank centre or a tank American, um, an elongated tank. Um Cartier has one of the craziest, most impressive archives of any watch company, uh, and they have unbelievable records. Um, and so there are all kinds of crazy sketches and like weird things lurking, as well as watches from the handful of books of vintage Cartier. And I would want to find some like very strange thing from their archive and do a contemporary riff on it. So whether it was a different style of numerals, different colors, different sort of dial textures, hand finishes, that kind of stuff. But I would I would want to create sort of a modern iteration of something from like the thirties or forties, from the the sort of heyday of those watches. That's a great idea. That would be awesome. Yeah, it's uh it's one that that has my wallet shaking, uh, which is not not good. Uh it has my wallet shaking and my wife ready to ask me if I need another watch, uh, which honestly the answer is probably no, but you know, it's an occupational hazard, right? For sure. Um let's, you know, I want I want to tackle one big picture question here. Um, you know, before we get into some some more minutia. Let's let's zoom out and then we're gonna zoom way in and talk about a handful of specific watch questions. Does that sound good? S
Caller (Various) ure. I'm curious what you guys think will be the biggest changes or shifts in the watch world as a result of this pandemic? I'm thinking as an industry, you know, how will the making, buying and selling of watches change? But also from the collector standpoint, will tastes or approaches to collecting change at all. I have my own thoughts, but I'm curious to hear yours. Thanks guys. Keep up the great content
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, I mean uh I don't think there's anything that has has taken up more sort of like time uh in our imaginations over the last uh last year than this. Um and I think it really breaks down into into two things. I mean there's there's challenges facing the industry, you know, business challenges, and there's challenges facing collectors in the community, which are enthusiast challenges. Um and I would say they there's certainly overlap, like it's definitely a Venn diagram, but um maybe we'll start with with the industry challenges, and and for me, the thing that came to mind immediately was distribution, right? Like this is a business that in the face of the internet has made the conscious decision to be mostly face to face and brick and mortar um and had to spin up digital infrastructure very quickly. Uh otherwise face, you know, months potentially of no sales. I mean that that to me strikes me as number one is is just, you know building digital infrastructure for a non-face to face world for a business that was almost exclusively face to face
John Buse . Yeah, I can't disagree with that at all. That's it seems to me like I would I would maybe throw in trade shows as well just, as like a the the way that we at least on our side, we're part of the industry, the way that we cover uh watches in the way that um uh you know, the retailers who are that distribution infrastructure uh purchase uh the products that they sell it's like all just been been upended by by the pandemic. Um you know we we we make do we uh we attend virtual press conferences we we uh when we can get our hands on product and uh so that we can cover it. Um but it's uh it's not the way that it used to be that's for sure. Um but yeah overall I mean it's a uh the watch industry, especially at the high end has been uh really a an in-person affair um uh at you know points of sale that are essentially uh in many cases mom and pops uh that hadn't uh developed uh a real strategy for uh what would come next, you know, uh in terms of selling online. Um and yeah, there's just many there's many open questions. So I think it's like uncertainty about what what exactly the future holds uh is a is another problem that I guess you could look at to
Cole Pennington o much. I I will say say one thing that doesn't directly answer the question, but it's a just a different way of looking at the question. And I would say that data that is emerging is telling a different story. Yes, there are challenges. However, we're seeing growth in the industry. So instead of asking what are the challenges, I would ask, why has the pandemic been a boon for the watch industry? That's an interesting question to ask. But of course, production, distribution, the obvious answers, but for some reason or somehow we're finding a way to overcome those challenges and actually growing uh in this time frame in this you know the past year. So that's super interesting to me personally
Jack Forster . Yeah I think it I think it kind of depends on where you look. You know, the um one of the things that has surprised me is that the watch industry has uh in uh you know, like I said, it depends on where you look. Some brands have adapted really, really well uh to the very rapid change in practices that we've all had to you know cope with and uh it's been a little bit tougher for you know for others. But you know to me the big contrast is um this used to be a fairly you know fit kind of physically intimate business to be handshake and then you go back home and um you know you've had you have a sense of physical connection with what you're going to be selling and you have a sense of physical direct connection, personal connection with the people who are producing the watches. And it's weird to go through a year f of product presentations that have to be done remotely. It reminds me just how much we used to rely on being able to sit down, see stuff and handle it in person and how much the impressions that we have of watches were really driven by direct, you know, direct experience. And uh you know to take that out of the equation creates And obviously it creates huge communication problems for the brands because they've got to find a way to kind of get across the, you know, the juice you used to get from sitting down with somebody and, you know, uh during the excitement of a trade show, opening a case and saying, hey, check out the new hotness. You know, and that just doesn't happen anymore
Stephen Pulvirent . And I think that translates to consumers too. And that'll kind of like transition us over to this other side of the question. But it's like, you know, I've talked to lots of collectors who who are hitting me up, like guys I know in New York, who are like, hey, my AD called and has a new speedy for me. Should I buy it? Like, I haven't seen it. I don't have the opportunity to see it before I buy it, but should I buy it? And like, same with the new Rolex releases. Like, a lot of those came out and like boutiques in many cities were not open. And so like you could buy it but like you kind of had already committed to it and like yeah, they'd let you back out. Like they're not, you know, kinda like taking your money and telling you to to, you know, figure it out later. But uh it's it's a different experience. And like it's one thing with you know, I happen to think like our colleagues in the shop do a really good job of like really amazing high-res photography, the lifestyle photography, really detailed descriptions from like people actually care. But like that's not the case everywhere. And like if you're trying to make a purchasing decision from some renderings that a brand put out and that's it, and like you have nothing else to go on. That's a that's a tough way to make a big purchase like that. And you know, I I get it. Um and I think, you know, one of the good things is other other digital platforms have started to catch up a little bit and and there are now you know more quality online watch buying experiences than there used to be. And I think that was a long time coming. And you know I'm proud that that we were kind of on the forefront of that uh and helped kind of hopefully pull some other other folks along with us. But I'm very happy to see that we're now part of an ecosystem. Like that exists now. Uh and and as the years gone on and I've I've seen more and more collectors getting more and more comfortable. Um but there was that moment where like that first time you get the call to like buy a watch sight unseen uh it's it's kind of scary uh and it's a new way of doing things.
Jack Forster Yeah I mean I guess you know to step back and give a little context around the whole thing, I mean, uh you know, people buying pre-owned from other collectors and people buying vintage from other collectors have been buying uh, you know, on the internet, you know, pictures seen but said unseen for, you know, the better part of two decades. So there's a there's there's a whole sort of a reservoir of a reserve of people who've been kind of acclimated to that sort of thing. Um and I think that uh the fact that the pump has been primed so much by people who have over the last twenty years gotten habituated to buying watches because because you know it requires some pre-knowledge. Um but that has kind of helped I think set the stage for a greater acceptance of um you know selling selling new watches at retail um dig
Stephen Pulvirent itally. You know, uh on the if we move away from the sales stuff for a second, I mean the community I think has really sees this as like an opportunity, you know, if if anything. Uh in-person meetups have obviously stopped, which sucks. There's a lot of people, you know, I'll speak personally. There's a lot of people I used to see all the time, uh, who I now haven't seen many of them in over a year, uh, which really sucks. Like there's no two ways about it. That's shitty. And I'm looking forward to, you know, having having some beers with those folks hopefully sooner rather than later. But I've also had lots of fun Zoom calls with watch collectors and lots of fun Zoom calls not just with guys in New York but you know before I came out to the West Coast like with guys here and I've talked to friends in Japan and in London and like you know watch uh the watch community tends to be uh pretty smart folks, and I think they really seized uh the opportunity to show their ingenuity and their their connectedness. Uh it's been really nice to see the community come together and say, like, pandemic be damned, like we're still a community, we're still gonna hang out, we're still gonna make this fun. Uh and it's been nice, it's been nice to see that. It's been nice to see so much visible like caring and love from this community uh for one another over the last year. Um I don't know. It's it's really like it's actually been kind of nice and like reassuring for me that like this world we operate in is full of like really passionate enthusi enthusiastic people who care for one another. Yeah you know it's a really it's an interest
John Buse ing point you make. And I would, you know, this this isn't specifically talking about watch lovers, although a couple of these guys do do kind of like watches, but like so I have a like a good group of friends from high school and it's like a core group of like five guys that we have just we we we you know been hanging out since high school. Um and I we live in different cities and it's been more of like, oh, you know, well we we might hang out like one one weekend if it's possible or something. It's just it's there it's become less and less frequent over the years. But during the pandemic, like having like a standing kind of like call that you can just jump on and and talk to old buddies has been great. It's actually in some cases brought me closer to old friends, you know. Yeah
Stephen Pulvirent . Cool. Well, I want to make sure we have time for this this sort of like semi-rapid fire um here at the end. Um so let's move over to that. Um basically we got a ton of questions that were this watch or that watch, is this the best? Is there something better? Tell me kind of questions. And I didn't want to just ignore all of those people. So we're gonna answer them. I would ask that we'll just go, you know, one after the other. I would say let's go uh Cole, John, Jack, me. Um let's let's go that way um and then uh let's keep the answers to like one or two sentences just so we can get through uh as many of these as possible first up uh cartier santos or JLC Reverso. Cole, you're first. Uh JLC
Cole Pennington Reverso because it can be flipped over to protect the wat
John Buse ch. JLC Reverso, although there is another Cartier that I probably would go for before the JLC reverso, but not the Santos. Which Cartier? Uh I'd probably just do like a a tank, uh tank American, something like that.
Jack Forster Yeah. Jack. Recusing myself on this one because I cannot choose between them because I love them both that much. Honestly. I sorry. That's fair. It's a cop out. That's all right
Stephen Pulvirent . That's all right. Uh I think I'm gonna copy John here and say my order would be Tank American Reverso Santos uh would be my my ordering here. Uh and if you're interested in both the Santos and the Reverso, go check out the steel tank American because I think you're gonna love it. And if you buy one of these without having seen the other one, when you do see the other one, at the very least, I think you're gonna be annoyed with yourself that you didn't take the time to like think about it. Even if you ultimately decide the Reversor or the Santos is better for you, they're both amazing watches, I would be very happy to own any of those three. But you should see all three before you buy any of them. Uh let's get let's ask us something. Oh a weird one here. Uh I want Jack to go first on this, actually. The IWC tribute to the Paul Weber. Is this watch awesome? Is this watch just weird? Is it worth collecting? Like what essentially like if you had to give like a two-second like what the hell is the deal with this watch for this piece? What's what's your this is what you need to know
Jack Forster ? I think that watch is awesomely weird and if you want a watch that reminds you of the chaotic dream of an American entrepreneur who went to Switzerland, uh tried to start a watch company, did not succeed went back to New York and died in miserable obscurity while this company went on to become one of the best known watch companies in the world. This is the watch for you, my friend
Stephen Pulvirent . Jack, that is what I want to think about all day, every day. That's it for me. I've been searching. All right. John and Cole, do either one of you have have any thoughts on this watch? No.
John Buse Not after what Jack said, no. I can't r I can't really follow what Jack said, but I I will say that it's uh I I don't know if it's for me, but it's a watch that I can't get out of my mind because it when what was the year that it dropped? It was like twenty seventeen maybe or something like that. Uh it was it's one of the most memorable watches of of whatever that year of new releases was for me. Because there was nothing else quite like it
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah. It definitely like stands out and I dig it. And if it were smaller, I would want to like at least give it a go. Um I'll have my usual complaint. There's too much damn text on the dial. Like it doesn't need to say hours and minutes under those things. I know it's historic. I get it, but like just stop. That's that's my one complaint, but that's that's my hobby horse. Uh I'll leave it I'll leave it there. Um let's go to an either another either or uh bulgari octofenissimo steel or titanium? Yeah, let's go cold
Cole Pennington John Jack. Cold John Jack. Uh I say titanium just because I like the juxtaposition between uh fashion company that does a really, really good watch and then the tech tech forward approach of titanium so I think the jax position is cool
John Buse . It for me it was uh titanium until just last month when we saw the uh uh the new monochromatic steel one which is a banger. It's awesome. It's and it's uh uh yeah I just love that watch. So I think it's gonna it's now the steel but now that that one came out. Ye
Jack Forster ah. Go for the titanium one, just because it makes me feel like I'm the person responsible for human interface design in the surveillance system of a basically benign high-tech utopia somewhere 150 to 200 years in the future. Which has always been my dream job
Stephen Pulvirent . Jack, I heard there's an opening. Jack, do you I shouldn't have told you that 'cause we don't want you leaving, but man, I heard there's an opening. I heard there's a lot of positions available in dystopias these days. Are you trolling us or did you prepare things like this, Jack? That you just gonna pull out or like oh no
Cole Pennington . No, Cole. He's uh you you've known Jack long enough. This is just Jack. I know that, but I'm I'm just always in awe and I love it. And I was thinking, Agreed, man. Could I even have prepared an answer like that and just pulled it out and inserted into any random question? No
Stephen Pulvirent . See, Cole, Cole, you're you're approaching this all the wrong way. I know that Jack's gonna bring the heat, so I don't even try. All right. Yeah, that's fair. I mean maybe I should lay off, you know. Uh I'm I'm gonna also go titanium on the Bulgari, uh, but I'm gonna I'm gonna do it with a caveat. I want the Tadao Ando titanium Octofenissimo. That watch is absolute, absolute hotness. I love it so much. That's fire, man. It's awesome watch. All-time favorite watches of the last Larry I say all time. It is an all-time favorite. It is certainly like top five for me of the last five, ten years. Uh I was in Japan when it came out and saw it in Japan, which makes it even cooler uh for me personally. I really would have liked to have come home from that trip with one, but uh that wasn't in the cards. Um it's a shame that sixteen thousand dollars wasn't just laying laying around somewhere, but uh yeah. Um let's go back. Uh the Santos kept coming up. Lots of people have questions about the Santos. So there's a this is a weird one, and we don't even have to give an answer. I just want to like throw this out there. Someone is debating between the Santos and the Speedmaster. Um, which yeah, they're both iconic watches, but like okay, uh, very strange. But like, I guess if you had to choose, or maybe if you had to offer this person like a question they should ask themselves before making this decision? Like how how do we even begin to give this person advice? Maybe Jack, you wanna start this one off? I mean this sounds to me like som
Jack Forster ebody with a very, very strong um attraction to really classic design. I mean, I think about what those two watches have in have in common. They are both absolutely classics of the form. Classic mid-century, uh sports chronograph on the one hand, and a a classic of uh watch design from you know are it's arguably the first purpose-built wristwatch ever made so i would say just you know ask yourself you know look into your heart and ask yourself which one of those idioms you wish to have around you uh the most at first because whichever one you get you're gonna you know if these are your tastes, whichever one you get, you're gonna end up with the other one. So uh you know just pick the one you're gonna be happiest to have around uh first and uh save up for the sec
Stephen Pulvirent ond great advice. I cannot do any better than that. How about how about either of you guys? I would have to have a beer with this person
Cole Pennington first and like get to know them. It's hard to say. You can't really compare the watches, but let me talk to this person and and hang for a bit. Then maybe I can have an answer. Maybe. Yeah
Stephen Pulvirent . I'm with you. Uh all right. Saxonia thin 37mm. I love this watch. I know Jack loves this watch. Uh this person knows that, the person who asked this question, and wants to know if there is a better dress watch to be had at that price point. So we're talking like around 15 grand. I don't know what the exact price is. I did not look it up, but it's like plus or minus fifteen thousand US. Is there a better dress watch to be had? Uh Jack and I will go last here, so let's let's go Cole, John, Jack and me
Cole Pennington . Um staying within the family. I mean my my favorite langa hands down is the eighteen fifteen Crono, which is not in that range. However, what it's like more than double, isn't it? No, but so all right. So here at that
Stephen Pulvirent , Stephen. It is it is more than double, but yeah, it's more than double, my guy. Like if I if I asked you if you if I asked you all right, so like that's that's not apples to apples though, ma'am. Like that's that's like saying uh do you do you want a Mercedes e class? And you're like, no, I want the Maybach. Like it's not, it's it's the same thing, kind of.
Cole Pennington So follow this logic here. All right, I'm into the 1815 chrono. I like though that design language. So what can I scale down to that sort of fits in that price point secondhand, maybe is your basic 1815, which is also time-only compact, nice. Uh and I would look at that only. That's because that's my design taste. I think a lot of these questions are like someone just wants some affirmation. Like totally. Yeah, that's it. So I would say if you are looking, yeah, yeah. That's all I want too, to be honest. So that's all we're all looking for, guys. Yeah. So yeah, I mean the 1815, sure, but if you want the Saxonia, just buy the damn thing, you know?
John Buse Yeah. Uh at that price point, I don't think you can do any better, certainly in terms of new watches, but then as I'm just kind of like cycling uh even some like what I can think of anyway, vintage watches through my mind. I don't think that they beat it either. So I think that the the I think the yep, I think that's the that's the best you can do for that amount of money for a dress watch
Jack Forster . Yeah, best. Oh boyy is a slipper, um slippery, slippery, slippery word to throw around. Um of its kind, I think it's very hard to do better new retail at that price point um than the Saxonia. Um, it is it's one of those watches that really feels essential. It feels not only like an essential, like the essence of manga, and you know, the fact that you can get the essence of manga at that price point is kind of amazing. Um, but it also feels like the essence of a high quality uh dress watch and the things that you feel a sense of connection to when you put it on are all the things you want to feel a sense of connection to if you have a high grade gold dress watch on
Stephen Pulvirent your wrist. I could not agree with that more. It is one of the hardest watches I've ever had to send back. Uh I got to wear one for about 10 days to do a week on the wrist with it. Um were it to like a friend's wedding, uh like really got to like go have a good time with it. Um it's awesome. I miss it still. I have thought about buying one many, many, many times. Uh and you know Jack points out best is a tough word, but I will say this, if I were going to spend fifteen thousand dollars of my own money on a dress watch, this would be the watch and it's not even close. Uh I I like don't even have a backup option because if this was not available, I would just not spend the money rather than buy something else. Yeah. Could I just clarify? I meant best for me, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course, of course. Um all right, we got two two of these left and they're two like we had to save them for the end. Uh and we'll we'll try to keep it short here just because again, each of these could be its own episode. One of them, like actually both of them kind of were their own episodes already, but bear with me. 321 Ed White or thirty eight sixty oneon mo watch? I think Jack. Again, very different price points, but like for you, which watch do you personally like better? Yeah. I know. That's what I'm here for, guys. I gotta I gotta put you on the spot, ask you hard questions, make you commit on the record in your own voice. It's great
Jack Forster . By a hair for me, it's the 321, um, but only by a hair. The 3861 is a really, really impressive watch. I absolutely love the design. Um, if you want, if you basically want the vibe of a vintage speedmaster, but you want the latest uh But you want the latest technology under the hood, that's the way to go. I have such a strong sentimental attachment to the 321. Um, I would have that that's where I would have to go. Um, but uh, you know, I've I've I've reached a point in life where I tend to look backwards more than forwards anyway. So that uh you know somebody else might make a different decision. Nice.
John Buse John, how about you? Um I think I would uh just on the basis that it's uh that it's new, um, I would go for the 3861. I think having that uh master chronometer certification and MEDIC and all that is uh is really worth something. And um it's uh I think we'll looking back once we have a little bit of time to look back on it, the fact that Omega was able to do this while uh uh maintaining, you know, its status as like the the flightworthiness and and uh and all of that with NASA is like super impressive and um I this is something that I never thought was gonna happen um to see the moon watch transition uh to a movement that was totally different. I thought that it would uh I just didn't think it was like possible, but um it happened and uh it's a great watch.
Cole Pennington Yeah. Cole? Uh I would say 3861 for me simply because I would and this is just a practical thing, so I'm being practical, so I apologize, but uh it would be hard to wear an Ed White for me every day without being precious about it, right? Where thirty-eight sixty one I could just throw on and I wouldn't be too weird about it. It's you know, it's a just a a better everyday watch for somebody. Yeah
Stephen Pulvirent . Uh I'm gonna go three twenty-one. Um I love this watch. I've always wanted a speed master, but I've never found the right one for me. Uh this is the one that feels like it's the one for me like I would like to at some point own this watch um yeah I just think it's it's it's this amazing confluence of like Omega and all of their history with like true high-end watchmaking. Like that movement is a piece of high watchmaking. That is that is serious watchmaking in a way that I think is like kind of undervalued actually. And the fact that you essentially get to buy like a true high-end Swiss chronograph and a badass Omega Speedmaster at the same time, to me, is just like it doesn't get much better. Um all right, last one here, and let's keep this one real short. Old sub or new sub? If you could buy them at the same retail price, you know, or approximately, like if you could not pay markup now on the discontinued one. Uh are you buying last year's sub or are you buying this year's sub
Jack Forster ? I'm gonna throw I'm gonna answer that question with a question. Uh somebody takes you into a pitch black room, they sit you down, and uh they're the two watches are in front of you in pitch darkness on the table. They turn on the light for two seconds. Can you tell which one is which? No. Absol
Stephen Pulvirent utely not. There we go. All right, Jack Dunn undid the question. There we go. Uh I think that's fair. Uh I'll spoil it. That said I like the new movement. Yeah, I was gonna permit the escape. Yeah, I was gonna say the new one, 'cause they basically feel the same. Uh, but the new one is like technically a better watch. I also do actually think the new bracelet makes a difference in the couple of hours I spent with these watches. I do genuinely like the new bracelet better. Uh and because of the slimmer lugs the watch wears thinner like it doesn't feel quite as bulky uh despite you know technically being a fraction of a millimeter larger um but yeah that's my I think Jack though, you hit the nail on the head here. Old sub, new sub, uh don't worry about it, is I think the right answer. I have one thought after of ruminat
Cole Pennington ing on this. All right. So you know how with the first iteration of the ceramic GMT master, the colors were slightly different compared to the the different marks or generation, right? The colors changed over time. I would be more inclined to buy the new sub just in case they change anything in like the second iteration of it. Simply because it'll be more collectible or more interesting. You know? Interesting. You mean like get the get the get
John Buse an early version of the new uh the new like very an an early example of the new version exactly because yeah interest
Stephen Pulvirent ing that's fair yeah smart that's a good point all right guys this was awesome thank you for helping me answer all these questions uh thank you everybody who sent in questions again. Like I feel like every time we do this, we get to like half the questions we wanted to get to. So uh maybe maybe we'll we'll do a little revising of this format so that we can get more people's questions in each time. But um yeah, let us know in the comments. Uh go hit up the site. Uh leave comments if there are questions you didn't you you wanted answered that didn't get answered. If there are answers you disagree with, let us know. Uh links in the show notes. And uh yeah, thanks for thanks for being here, guys. Thanks to everybody who submitted and uh we'll see you next week. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Stevie, and question askers. Awesome. Take care, guys.