Twenty-Teens Watch Collection Fantasy Draft Winners & Recap¶
Published on Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:00:00 +0000
Going over the results of our latest fantasy draft plus a look back at a killer watch from 2017 that you've probably forgotten.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinkee Radio features two main segments. In the first, host Stephen Pulvirent reunites with his colleagues—John Bughes, Cara Barrett, and James Stacey—along with producer Gray Corhonan to reveal the results of their highly popular 2010s fantasy draft episode. Stephen wins with 44% of the vote, followed by James (32%), Cara (14%), and John (10%). The team discusses major trends from the decade, including the rise of budget-friendly mechanical watches from brands like Tudor, Halios, and Hamilton, and debates which brand "won" the decade—with strong cases made for Tudor, Omega, and even Apple. They reflect on watches they wish they'd drafted, conspicuous absences like the Tudor Black Bay 58, and auction pieces they'd add to their collections, ranging from Philippe Dufour's Duality to rare Patek Philippe pieces.
In the second segment, Stephen and colleague Danny Milton revisit Stephen's 2017 "Week on the Wrist" review of the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Control Date with Sector Dial. Nearly four years later, they discuss how well the watch has aged, praising its timeless design, subtle dial finishing, and restrained use of blue accents. They debate design choices like the painted numerals versus applied markers, the open versus closed caseback, and the controversial mixing of French and English text on the dial. Both agree the watch could serve as a "one watch for life" and represents JLC's thoughtful approach to heritage-inspired design. They also imagine how other brands like Omega or Grand Seiko might interpret a sector dial design.
Links¶
Transcript¶
| Speaker | |
|---|---|
| Gray Corhonan | I kind of love that uh the brand name I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation, but GG Le Coult and then Automatic is on the dial. And then it just says Swiss made at the bottom. Which I love that it's like French, French, English. At least |
| Stephen Pulvirent | make it automatic, you know? I have never thought about that on a watch and now that is gonna drive me nuts. You just broke my brain. Yeah, it's what happens when you stare at a watch for too long. You get |
| Gray Corhonan | way too pedantic |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Hey everybody, I'm your host, Stephen Pulverant, and this is Hodinky Radio. So a couple weeks ago, we published our 2010s fantasy draft episode. Uh and we knew it was gonna be a little controversial, we knew that there were gonna be strong opinions on the watches we chose, and as it turns out, we were absolutely right. Uh the post on hodinky.com quickly got over a hundred comments, and we had literally thousands of people voting on their favorite watches and favorite collections. This was our most popular fantasy draft to date, and I'm not at all surprised by that. So we don't always do a real like post-mortem look back on these. Uh typically we just announce the winners and then move on. But uh we thought it'd be nice this week. Gray's gonna come on and tell uh Kara, James, John, and myself who won the draft. Uh, and then we're gonna take a moment to look back and look at what we did, what we would change about our collections, what this taught us about the last 10 years and watches. And we're also gonna try to address some questions raised by you all, the listeners, uh, in the comments, uh, just like we said we would. Um, it's a really fun conversation. Honestly, this could be like a many hours-long thing, but we get really into the meat of everything and there's no shortage of hot takes either. After that, you're gonna hear a conversation between Danny and myself that revisits a classic hodinky week on the wrist. Uh this was my review of the Jaeger LeCult Master Control date with Sector Dial, uh, which came out almost four years ago. It's hard to believe it's been that long. Um, but Danny was also a huge fan of that watch uh when it came out, uh just as a watch collector and enthusiast. Uh and the two of us kind of talk about what it meant to the watch world and to the collector community when it came out, how the watch holds up all these years later, uh, and the little things about the watch that we love that drive us crazy and that make us still want it uh to this day all those years later. So we got a fun episode for you. It's really nitty gritty watch nerd stuff in the best way possible. Uh and I know you're really going to enjoy it. So without further ado, let's do this. Hey team, good to see you guys. Hey everyone. Hey guys. Hi. Howdy. And uh this week we got yeah, we got our producer. We got Grey Corhonan on the mic this week. Oh wait, great, you're on the mic? I thought you were just here to hang out. Can't |
| James Stacey | I do both? All right, well that's cool. Welcome. I'm I'm here to hang out and I'll be producing as well. Okay |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Perfect. Uh so the reason I called you guys back is we are going to unveil the results of the 2010's fantasy draft that we did a couple weeks ago. Uh, Gray is the only one who has seen the results. I have not seen them. Uh I presume none of you have seen them. Uh, and so Gray is gonna count us down from fourth place to first place, right? Correct. That is the plan. Let's maybe then just get into it and we'll do all the other stuff after. So we'll find out who won and then uh we've got some topics we wanna discuss as promised. Um, some big picture stuff about what we kind of learned about the last decade through doing the draft. Um, some more like nitty-gritty things like watches we wish we could have drafted, some conspicuous absences, um, you know, if we had to swap some watches amongst amongst one another, amongst ourselves. Um and then at the end, we're going to address some comments uh from the story on Hodinky. So we asked you to let us know your thoughts and we're gonna discuss some of those today. But first up, Gray, you wanna uh take it away and tell everybody how I won this thing? Uh okay, Steven. We we didn't take a peek at the results now, did we? I haven't I haven't seen. No, I'm just talking shit. You totally cheated and looked. I swe I swear I didn't. Oh, you're busted. That was too smooth. Oh man. That was too smooth. Yes. Far, far too smooth. I agree. Oh shit. Yeah, I honestly didn't look. Busted. |
| Gray Corhonan | I don't believe you. Alright, well I'm not confirming or denying any of Steven's claims to victory. Uh but we might as well get into the results here. After thousands of votes streamed in from all over the world, uh, this this being the most highly responded to draft poll that we have conducted so far. Uh the results are as follows. Coming in at fourth place with ten percent of the vote, drum roll please |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Mr. John Bughes. John Bughes, fourth place. You know what, John, there are no there are no losers here, only winners. What what do we say? Uh only only winners and non winners? I think it was winners and less winners, is what we said. Less winners. Good day plus twenty-nine only winn |
| James Stacey | ers. So John is the least of the winners. Thanks for playing, John |
| Gray Corhonan | . Now the third place, third least winner. Drum roll, please. Is Miss Cara Barrett C |
| James Stacey | B with 14% of vote? Wow, not not at all an upset. Is it? Yeah. I almost didn't try because I was against Cara |
| Gray Corhonan | . All right, we're up to second place. Number two. Drum roll, please. Mr. James Stacy with thirty-two percent of the vote. Oh, okay. Meaning that Steven peeking pulverant with forty four percent of the polls takes the crown, his second consecutive victory in Kudinki Radio Fantasy Drafts. What do you have to say of yourself, Ste |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ven? You cheated. Uh good to be host, right? I didn't I I that could be host. That I didn't peek. That I didn't peek, but that I now look like a huge asshole for starting the segment that way. So I think the real lesson here is even when you're the winner, sometimes you're a loser. |
| James Stacey | Well, uh congratulations, Steven. And thanks to everyone who voted. That's all I got. Congratulations, Steven. Congratulations, Steven. Thanks for the solid lap well designed.' I dont yeah, I don't know you can't you can't I don't think you can fault any of these collections. I mean Gray didn't put one out there, just you just being shy or something, but uh uh you know it's I I think of the four, I think they're all pretty solid. So I I get and forty four percent of the vote's pretty good for one of these things |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I think I'm Yeah, I'll I'll certainly take that. Uh but what I will say is I'm I'm shocked I got forty four percent of the vote. Like I I feel good about my collection, obviously, but I I agree with you, James. I think all of these are really solid. And I think each of these collections has at least one watch in them that to me is like a non-negotiable contender for watch of the decade. Like every one of these collections has one of the top five to ten watches of the last ten years in it. Uh in a way that I like I don't think is up for debate, right? Like every collection has either a Rolex or Tudor flagship sport watch in it, right? Like every collection has something from Patek or Vacheron or um A P that's like sort of high end and mass appeal. Like if if you start to try to pick this apart, I I don't know. I think the differences between the collections start to fall away a little bit and no matter what the percentages are, like I think the margin between each of these votes is is pretty pretty razor thin. Well I mean mat |
| James Stacey | hematically we know the margins, Steven. I I only I only see why you swing at that because I saw you taking a drink |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . James James is hoping I spit green tea all over my laptop. Um yeah, this is why I'm a podcast host and and not an economist, but uh yeah. Um it's why I'm not on Robinhood topical. Um But uh yeah, I I got a lot of finger guns from everybody on video when I said that, by the way, just for the the listeners who are not seeing the Zoom stream. Um yeah, I think I don't know. I had a lot of fun with this draft, forget the outcome. I really enjoyed, again, as I said in the first one, like this draft really spans all of our careers. And I thought it was fun to kind of not not only take a trip down memory lane for myself, but also to get sort of your perspectives on what the last 10 years in watches looked like. Like I think I actually learned a little bit about each of you from what you picked, um, which considering the amount of time we spend together talking about watches is kind of astounding. But um I don't know did you guys have any other sort of like big top line takeaways from this for for yourselves just personally |
| Cara Barrett | ? I actually got it overwhelming because there were so many good things to choose from. And I just it was hard. It was hard to pick. I also feel like we did leave some stuff out. Yeah, I |
| James Stacey | would agree. There was so much. It might have been an a really unwieldy podcast, but I think we could have had every single person who writes about watches for Hodinki in on this. And uh it it there's a just there were plenty of watches to go around |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I think that would be fun. We can we can go hard. All right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm I just want to start this conversation by talking about kind of the big the big lessons about the last decade, right? Like this was the first time, I don't know about you guys, but this is the first time I've gone back and said like, okay, I need to go really like dig back into every year from the last 10 years, see like how collections evolved, what came out when. Oh, this came before that. Oh, this influenced that. This brand was doing this thing. Then the designer changed and they were doing that thing. So I I think there are definitely some some big top-level takeaways, and I'll I'll start with one and then I'm curious what you guys think. But um I think we saw a a really strong rise in budget friendly mechanical watches. Um and I think there were all kinds of reasons for that, not least of which is the sort of like rise of the watch internet in in scare quotes, but you know, um John obviously picked the the Q Timex, which is is not mechanical, although Timex started making mechanical watches again in the last decade. Um and then James picked the Halios, uh, which kind of represents the micro brand movement. Kara picked the system 51, which is like, you know, kind of the antithesis of mechanical watches, re-embracing mechanical watches. Uh and then I had the khaki field mechanical, which I think is is one of a number of efforts by big brands to come up with a sort of like appealing traditional Swiss made watch that sits under a thousand bucks, and there were many I could have chosen from. So I I I don't know what you guys think about that or if there's other trends you've noticed, but it it really stood out to me that like uh you are in a much better place today if you want to go spend seven hundred and fifty dollars on a mechanical watch than you would have been ten years ago. Yeah, I I I would |
| James Stacey | find I I can't dis uh disagree with you there. There's just so many options, like you mentioned, especially in the um the micro brand segment which really took uh it gave an opportunity to for people to kind of like pursue their dream of like making their own watch and then have it just be out there and become a like a hugely popular thing like in the case of uh like the Howie of C4th and watches like that. Um I feel like there there were always kind of eta-based uh I'm saying even like you know in pre-Solita days, there were the the you know affordable Eta-based watches from smaller brands. I'm thinking like Epos and brands like that, but they were really for like super watch nerds and people reading like trade magazines or you know people uh wandering like the uh extended holes a basel or something like that. But the these like really uh popular well designed uh micro brands are uh still a fairly recent phenomen |
| Cara Barrett | on yeah I think it's also interesting to think about how the vintage market has evolved over the past decade because that's where people used to go for more affordable mechanical watches, kind of like UG, um, like the pole router and stuff like that. They used to be a lot less expensive, and then now those prices have skyrocketed because they become more popular. But in turn, a lot of the brands have made a more affordable mechanical watches to kind of balance that out. So I think it's nice because you can kind of get the best of both worlds. Um so I agree. I think that's a very astute observation, Stevie |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I mean to your point about the pole router, like I can I can speak to that personally like my first nice watch quote unquote nice watch was a pole router that I bought when I finished grad school as like my graduation gift to myself and at the time I paid a thousand bucks for it and I saved up all year working my student job to be able to buy myself this watch. And I was talking to somebody the other day, I can't remember who, but since we recorded this show, uh the Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical is now available on a bracelet, uh, which is so cool. And I was saying to somebody, like, where the hell was this watch when I when I needed a sub-thousand-dollar like everyday field watch kind of watch? You know, like if that had been around, I guarantee you that's what I would have bought. Um, and you know, I'm glad I bought the pole router. I'm very glad I have it, and you know, it got me into vintage and and all of that. But like there's a lot of consumers who aren't going to spend the time that I spent or put forth that kind of effort and to have those kinds of watches I think is it's key. I I really don't think we can under I I don't think we can overstate how important it is to the future of this hobby for there to be awesome watches for $100, $200, $500, $1,000. Because if you don't get people in at that point, like they're they may never buy. They may get into something else uh and and the sort of like new customer flow is going to dry up true any any other kind of like big trends um that we spotted I have a couple others written down, but I'd love I'd love to hear from you guys. I |
| James Stacey | 'd say that the for me w what I find interesting is for twenty twenty ten to twenty twenty we kind of had this confluence of of timing that worked out at the same point for many things. So Web two point oh had kind of matured to the to the extent where we started to see the the the footnotes of forums becoming more um the the the the sort of conversations and and and knowledge that was based in forums started to transition into quote unquote more published platforms. And then a couple years later, we started to see Kickstarter and Indiegogo. And you had the you had basically the all of the little pieces that were needed if you wanted to operate as a brand as a watch brand, but outside of the format established by the Swiss watch industry over the previous sixty, seventy years. And I think that's what this that that decade will always stand out for me. It's where I cut my teeth in w in covering watches. And it was a mix of covering watches in a traditional manner, going to trade shows, learning the photography element, obviously learning how to write a sentence and the rest of it, but also while attempting just to keep up with this kind of changing landscape where like I I didn't I write for a magazine now with Hodinki magazine, but that's kind of at like the tail end of the twenty tens, right? Where I s we you started it was like the first blog I wrote for was you know predates almost any blog that's still around right now. And and it you know it it doesn't have anywhere near the footing that it had at the time now that there's competition. But I think it's fascinating to see that that the decade was largely won by companies that were willing to operate outside of the Rolex Omega uh Swatch realm, maybe with their movements, certainly, uh like John had spoken to um but it it's just kind of interesting where this was a year for folks that were looking to or a decade for folks that were looking to disrupt whether it's in sub thousand like what Halios has pulled off or almost like super hote with uh uh uh MBNF and and all of their all all the other the rise of the big I independen |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ce Yeah that's interesting. I mean that gets me to to another topic I wanted to make sure we we talk about so we can just head right there is who won the decade, right? Like I think you know, there's certain brands that pop up in all of our collections or in, you know, three of the four uh who are the obvious answers and we can get those out of the way. But I I wanted to have at least a couple minutes of of conversation about who won, like who came out the winners uh of of the last decade and i I I don't know. I mean I think we'll start let's start where you started James. I mean I think there's with risk takers. Yeah and I think there's it's it's funny I hadn't thought about like the capital I independence, but I guess there's like the small eye independence and the big eye independence. Uh and honestly, I think both did a great job. I think both moved this this industry forward. I think both helped find new audiences and I think both uh hopefully had some some financial excess, whether you're MBNF Erwork Debatune or whether you're autodromo oaken Oscar and Halios |
| James Stacey | . And and on that point, if you're talking about kind of moving moving the the the game forward and and and financial success and the rest and and finding a new audience, I don't think you can discredit what the auction houses did in that decade as well. Yeah, that's a full on full on stars. Vintage wasn't what it is in 2010. It just simply wasn't. Totally true. 2010, you could you could buy a sub for what you pay for a bracelet now, like a whole watch. Yeah. What you'd pay for the boxes and papers, like in terms of from one item to another. I mean everything was just down and and and the collectibility hadn't been established. A few people knew it, obviously, the the the people who are seen as heroes now. They were ahead of the game, they got in when it was low and uh and they saw the collectibility of these things. And some brands are still it's twenty twenty-one and some are still heating up. I don't think Rolex can get hotter, but Cardi is on a great path. You're absolutely right. I mean I think I think it's uh it's true of all people in all times interested in all things that they always feel like they kind of just just missed the boat. You know what I mean? Like it's uh there's always that that sense but you know it it's the that it stands to reason that there that there is something else that's gonna become incredibly hot. It's just none of us are clear are clairvoyant, you know. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think the the vintage thing, James, you know, that's a whole other conversation and one we should have. But I think the way in which that maybe ties back into what we're talking about today is like a lot of the brands that that I think won the decade, if we're sticking to brands like modern watchmakers, uh are are brands who saw that and ran toward it instead of away from it. Um, or who ran away from it hard. I think it's the people in the middle who are kind of stuck. You know, if you're if you're Max Booser and you're like, oh cool, people love wearing vintage Samariners, cool. I'm not going to try to make another Samariner. I'm going to make a sapphire spaceship with a curve-on in it. And you're like, okay, cool. Like all right. Or your tutor and you're like, we're gonna make an entire collection of watches that are well priced and devoted to people who are interested in vintage watches, but want to buy something from a jeweler that they can like smash against a subway pole. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and I and I I think it's it's we have to be careful because Tudor I think is a special one for this this decade. This is the decade where they came back to the US. This is the decade where they really started to see a sort of playbook take effect in their market. And I genuinely believe that they're there maybe single-handedly. We could identify a few other brands, I'm sure, but I think they would be the core. Um you know that they they brought a lot of new buyers into uh a luxury level. People who weren't commonly spending three, four, five thousand dollars a watch made that move with Tudor in the last decade. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the crucial movement for this industry, like hugely important to transition people out of the the Hamilton's, the Seiko's, the Langines, and into the stuff that's like a firmly for like that the the health of the movement or the health of the whole industry is very much based on you start in one place and you kind of bounce along as you move towards theoretically higher higher levels of product as you more specialize in in in what you like. And I think uh Tudor made a huge move for the whole industry by uh developing a a product in the Black Bay that that that's kind of um uh you know n not without refute, but d certainly there's the the merits are so high. Great watches. S |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ure. Yeah, I think if if you know there's a bunch of brands that I think you could argue won this decade, right? Like AP went from being the coolest brand in the world with every limited edition offshore known to man, uh and then somehow parlayed that into the success of the sort of jumbo style Royal Oaks uh and the concept pieces, which is it's it's no small feat that they went from being the hottest thing in the world to the next hottest thing in the world without getting, you know, kind of kicked to the curb first. Um, you know, good on them for for kind of reading the tea leaves there. Um, I mean, Rolex is Rolex, like you can argue that Rolex is always the the brand that wins the decade. Like |
| James Stacey | no I don't think Rolex is aware that ten years went by. I don't I don't I wouldn't be surprised if if we one day found out that Rolex like didn't use calendars. They didn't have any use for fiscal weeks or any anything that r that revolved around the idea of reporting earnings or successes. They just kinda like they're moving. They're doing their own their their their own market. And then AP is almost the inverse. This is a watch company based essentially in its modern context on one watch. Yeah, agreed. And and they they they took some swings with eleven fifty nine and and they're certainly making the the Royal Oak into absolutely everything that you could make the Royal Oak into and and having you know almost unparalleled success on that path. But two difficult brands to try and capture the market because they're operating as out as outliers |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Agreed. Uh so I'm gonna throw out three brands that I think though those were kind of I think you could make an argument for either one, but I don't think they actually would be my pick. Uh I think there are three real possibilities here, and I'd love to know your thoughts, all three of you. Um the three contenders I think for the the winner of the decade are Tudor, Omega, and Apple. Tudor, as James said, essentially popularized the entry-level vintage-inspired mechanical luxury watch. Like it's it's a watch that is a couple thousand dollars, but it's not eight thousand dollars. It's sort of heritage-y and cool, but like you don't really need to be a watch nerd to get it. Uh, and it's tutor, it's a big, well-respected brand. It's kind of like buying a Rolex. Uh, and and the kind of like trends, like seamlessness between which you can have that discussion with like a real diehard watch nerds, like guys who are spending millions of dollars a year on watches who still own modern tutors. Or like, you know, the you know, I have I have a bunch of friends at places like GQ who like bought their first nice watch and it was a black bay, you know? Um so that's that's Tudor. Omega uh with the success of James Bond and the Olympics over the last decade, like again, I know those existed before, but like Omega did a really good job with those over the last 10 years. Plus, the coaxial uh made its way like fully into most of the lineup, like most of their flagship level watches at this point have coaxial escapements, and they rolled out the MetaS certification. So like from a watchmaking perspective, at a at scale, maybe it's Omega. And then the last one is Apple. Um the Apple Watch came out in the last decade. It's the most worn watch in human history. Uh like nothing in the history of wristwatches has gotten more people to talk about and focus on the wristwatch, uh, at least in the modern era, than Apple. And so, like, it's probably not the way we want to call the game here, but like I think it's at least worth having that conversation. |
| James Stacey | I agree with all your picks. Yeah, I wouldn't change any of those picks to be honest. And I think uh with with Tudor in particular, and just kind of like I guess going to James' point, he's the one who who brought it up. I mean, there's a reason why I I picked the the Black Bay Burgundy as you know my my first pick out of the draft. And it's because, you know, I just remember that moment in like it was like 2012, 2013 when Tudor came back to the USA. And it felt like, you know, to me anyway, it felt like uh the aspirational um kind of like the aspirational entry point to to the world of Rolex was almost cooler than Rolex itself. And that's like almost like sacrilegious to say, but like I did kind there was that feeling for for a moment there uh uh because what they were doing was so uh like revolutionary, you know. Yeah. I mean that was our first overall um I think so. Was it uh I mean it it's a it's an M VP of a watch for sure, to beat with it w and and then the other side of it is like at least it like let's let's say in twenty ten it wasn't quite as hard to buy a Rolex. Twenty twelve, not quite as hard. But the Blackbait kinda came out in time to be in the market and to have some critical reviews and and to have sort of a watershed moment as Rolex became I don't know, almost unbuyable. I mean everybody can get like theoretically everybody someday will get the Rolex they want, but you're just gonna have to wait for it. And uh and I think a lot of this market, like people don't always wanna wait. And I I I think that the other thing that's kinda fun is I think the the willingness to wait on an eight or nine thousand dollar watch is different than the willingness to wait on a three or four thousand dollar watch, which really worked in their uh advantage. Yeah. Yeah |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I totally agree. Uh I I guess if you each had to pick from those three brands who won the decade, who who would you say won the decade? If you had to pick. I'm gonna be controversial here and say App |
| Cara Barrett | le. It was the first time they came out with a wristwatch and it really did reinvigorate the conversation. I've had so many conversations with people who said that they didn't know anything about watches and they bought an Apple Watch and then they didn't like wearing it anymore. So then they went and started reading about other watches because they liked having something on their wrist and that that's how they got into it. And I d I think it's really created a very strong narrative around the wristwatch. I mean, let's get real. I mean, I think t ten, fifteen years ago, like watches were still kinda like under the radar and now they're way more mainstream. And I think Apple has a lot to do with |
| James Stacey | that. I think twenty ten was a hugely important watch decade for Apple. I'm not sure how important Apple was to the overall decade of watches. Um I think I think that like the Apple Watch or the or the creation of a kind of uh ubiquitous and highly adopted smartwatch was inevitable. And and I get it. And I think I hope I genuinely hope that it's pointing people towards traditional watchmaking. Um, you know, I hope to have a career in this industry that goes uh for a little bit longer and and the prevalence, the the power of the Apple Watch could theoretically sh change the the way the whole industry goes. Um but I just I don't I don't know in my mind uh uh you know the the same sort of accolades for Omega or Tutor couldn't be shared by Apple and vice versa. So it's a in my book it's definitely not Apple. It's really tough because it's tutor for product and it and it's and it's omega for tutoring. I mean it's I think I mean they took a tech that a lot of people were just like flatly ignoring and even and even downplaying. And and not only did they commercialize it, they made it very successful. They they offer huge I think they did a huge thing. I th I just I think it's uh those are really good points. Uh I think it's it really depends on like how you what you're looking at, right? So if you look at like where omega is now compared to where they were in like let's say like the late 90s I think it's like they they they were always huge they're always one of the big big brands but like what they're doing now is so much more impressive if you look at like uh I have a I have like uh an omega um chronograph that I own it's my only omega but it's like you know it's got a value 7750 based movement in it it's like not knocking that movement it's a great movement and now you look at like you know what you know what their bread and butter stuff is in terms of like uh like the amazing automatic calibers but then of course like with like the thirty eight sixty one and like bringing back the three two one it's just like they they have come so far in the last 20 years as a brand, I think, as like a high-end watchmaker. It's actually incredible. And then you add on top of that, like the as Steven was mentioning, like the Metas and all of the coaxial stuff and it's just like that's a si that that it has been a seriously impressive brand evolution, actually, uh as a high end watchmaker. Um and then just in uh you know, Tutor coming back to the US and then of course Apple didn't make watches. So they they kind of uh invented them uh the they in they entered the category. So everything that they built was for nothing. I have a |
| Cara Barrett | question. Do we think fashion watches have a place in the |
| James Stacey | past decade? It was a big decade for Daniel Wellington and uh uh uh the coors Michael Coors. That's kinda what I was thinking. Like |
| Stephen Pulvirent | unless That's an interesting thought. It's very true. I would say my only uh my only caveat there would be that like I we know that like Apple has really hurt those sales. Uh that like they had a huge spike right as the Apple Watch was coming out. And basically every year since, uh, it's been tough. Uh like those companies are fighting an uphill battle when for like a hundred dollars more, instead of a Daniel Wellington, you get an an Apple Watch. Um so I I think you're right, Cara. Um like the rise and but I think they I think yeah like they they had like the full bell curve. Like they spiked and and our you know, maybe it's a shifted bell curve. We're not like all the way at the bottom of the other side, but I think we're on the on the downswing for sure. Um yeah, I I think I'm gonna vote omega. Um it's tough. Omega and Tudor are neck and neck for me. Um I think my reason for going with Omega and not Apple is that in the context of what we do and the audience we're speaking to, there's a certain contingent of watch lovers for whom the Apple Watch is just like not even worth talking about. And I I disagree with those people. I urge those people to like take 10 minutes and like go read about the thing or like when it's safe again go see one. Like you don't even have to go buy it. Just like go see it and play with it for five minutes. I think you're I think you'll you'll change your tune. I think at least a little bit. Um but I think Omega ticks all the boxes. I think that between the Olympics and James Bond, they are woven into the fabric of like major cultural events, uh sporting events and sort of like media events. I think like your average person who doesn't know anything about watches, like probably if they saw a speedmaster, would be like, oh, I've seen that before. Like it has like some sort of currency. Um and then I think they've done a really incredible job building for both mass market and uh the enthusiast community at the same time in a way that like no nobody else is doing. Uh and I think, you know, we forget often sometimes that like they are a close second to Rolex in terms of like the biggest watchmaker in the world, the biggest luxury watchmaker in the world. And think about how crazy it would be if like Rolex were to come out with a box set that was recreations of the big crown, the day date, and the explorer. You know? Uh think about how crazy it would be if every Rolex had a display back, a beautifully finished movement, and a coaxial escapement inside. Like that would be nuts and everybody would be going totally batshit over it. And I think Omega has like weirdly been able to do all this stuff and be kind of like low-key about it, uh, which I really respect. And also kind of like, I wish they got more recognition for it. So I don't know, for me from, the like pop culture to the enthusiast, the technical, the aesthetic, the historical, the modern, like I don't know. I think I think Omega takes the cake. And the funniest thing about this for me is that there's not a single omega in any one of our collections, uh, which is kind of a nice uh transition to what I wanted to do next, which is you know, kind of go back and ask some questions about our draft and see what we would have done the same, differently, whatever. But um some some rapid fire stuff. Yeah, exactly. So let's let's just do some rapid fire. You don't need to explain too much because we got you know a good amount to get through and and not a ton of time left but uh yeah let's let's start there uh if you had to and we'll go let let's just go in in the same order just to keep it easy. We're gonna go in the order that everybody's in in my Zoom chat. So uh we'll go John Cara James Me if that works. Um let's start with which watch from your collection would you never give up or trade if we were to do the draft over again? Uh w which watch would I never give up or trade? I would keep the |
| James Stacey | can I say two or does it have to be one? No No uh I would never give up the Creador, which is uh funny because I think that's the one that I picked kind of like on the spot. I think that's one that I uh I just kind of was like, oh I need something from you know from that kind type of watchmaking, I should I should do this but looking back on it that's uh one that I would not give up nice C B the rainbow not at all surprised |
| Stephen Pulvirent | it's just too fancy |
| James Stacey | uh for me uh, yeah, I I think I think bec it's one of one. So it'd be the uh the Corey Richards Vascheron in titanium. So I mean if you could get something like that, that could just be I could also I like I could live the rest of my life in the watch industry with that one watch to my name and it would be fine. I'd be doing I'd be doing real good. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. I funnily feel the same way about the watch I'm gonna pick, which is probably in terms of winning me this draft, the least responsible watch. Uh like this is strategically the worst pick, but I'm gonna pick the Acrivia, uh the Chronomet Contemporane. The stick with it. Um again, like I that is like a one a one wat |
| James Stacey | ch for you though. Like I've as long as I've known you and then certainly as long as I've been working for and with you, this watch has been like a major thing for you |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It's huge. And the fact that like Reg is like m my age ish and like a nice guy. You know, I've been to the workshop a couple of times, hung out and had beers. Like it's like all the things I love about being in the watch industry, like having those personal connections and seeing like a person who is really fully devoted, like in their entire being to making great things. Uh and the fact that it like lines up with my own taste is also it's repres representative of the independence, which had a big uh success in the past decade. Exactly. For sure. Exactly. All right, let's go to the next one. If you could add another wild card pick, so you get any watch, you just have to add a sixth watch to your collection to round |
| James Stacey | Yeah, you're up. You go first. Steven, let me know let me know what the the the watch you would add if you had another card p |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ack. Um I'm gonna go with the three twenty-one Speedmaster from Omega, the Ed White. Again, to my point from before, like Omega had such killer decade, and like, yes, this watch is not the most technically advanced Omega. It's not a new design. Like, it's not a lot of the things I said that make Omega great, but it is that sort of like fan service combined with technical prowess. Um and so I'm gonna go three twenty one speedy. James, what would you uh what would you pick in this serpentine uh draft? |
| James Stacey | So glad you asked. Uh RM twenty seven oh one. Ooh, baby. Was the other was the other big the other big stinker I had in my w on my wildcard list. It's just I mean it's just it's one of the most fabulous things I've ever held in my hands. I could not agree more, my friend. It just makes you laugh. It makes you feel like you're five years old and somebody showed you like it reminded me of the first time someone showed me Indiglow on a And like you get you get to you get around an ultra lightweight R any Reshard mill is an is an incredible thing to to for somebody to hand you to hold on to for a moment. But the ultra light stuff and then the the Nadal stuff is just on a whole different level |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It it breaks your brain. Like you pick it up, and your brain doesn't understand how an object of that volume can have that little mass. And you just like it, like you do a double take and you have a hard time like it it's weird it's a weird sensation and I highly recommend anyone who hasn't held one of these like find a retailer go in and like be super friendly to the people and see if they'll let you put one on your wrist or even just hold it. Uh it's it's crazy. It's a crazy experience. Yeah. Uh CB, how about you |
| Cara Barrett | ? I'm gonna do the MB and Flying T, even though it came out recently, I think A, it represents a lot of things. One, an independent. Two, a really cool independent. Three, it's the first ladies' watch that MD and F did, quote unquote ladies, it's not super specific, but that's who it's intended for. And I just think they knocked it out of the park. And I think it kind of just showcases what what Max is so good at at doing um and creating something crazy that you can wear. So love it. Great watch. |
| James Stacey | John, you want to finish finish it off? If I could have if I could pick something different, um, I think I probably would like you have gone for an omega and it would be a speed master, but I'd go for um I'd probably do a 386 |
| Stephen Pulvirent | 1. Yeah, John, I totally agree with that. That's that's awesome. And specifically, I assume when you say 3861, you're talking about the gold speedy. Yeah, exactly. The the one that came out in the in the in the approved uh decade You like how I gently I gently nudged you there in the uh the right direction. Yeah. Uh James, what's your pick gonna be? What were what were you surprised nobody took? Uh yeah I' |
| James Stacey | m surprised that we didn't see any MBNF, right? And and you know car sorted a little bit with uh with the T. And the other one is like Harry Winston Opus stuff, which is again, a precursor to MB and F, right? That was Max's uh project with them. And I'd like the Opus eleven was on my list. I think it's still one of the wildest watches I've ever seen. The best animation of a watch I've ever seen. Um Um but for me would be it would be you know any any of the kind of big um sort of hallmark Royal Oaks. You know, they they just demanded so much attention over the last decade, especially the last five years. So I'd probably like the RD two. It's a pretty remarkable watch from basically every level of watch making. And then of course it's it's complete completely impossible to buy. So Yeah. How are you feeling? What do you think for uh ones we miss |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ed? Yeah, I think it's funny. Like, you know, you and James and and Cara, you two went in one direction, which was like more like impact on the industry, high complication, like impressive stuff. And I think John went for like a really great consumer-friendly watch that we just that like I bet you hundreds of thousands were sold over the last decade. Like you'd have to imagine uh that hundreds of thousands ofed Spemasters were sold. So I'm going to go in that direction. I was shocked, and again, I know John picked the Black Bay Burgundy. I was shocked that the BB58 wasn't on this list. I just remember at Basel World when this watch came out, people lost their shit. Like I the watch media is pretty jaded and cynical by nature, like even more than most consumer journalists are. Uh I feel like watch people are pretty finicky. Uh people lost their their damn minds over this watch. Like you would have thought Rolex was handing out fucking big crowns at the booth. Like it was insane. People were going bananas. Like people wearing six-figure watches on their wrists were freaking out and calling their ADs to try to get this what $30, $200 watch, thirty three hundred dollar watch. Um like it was I don't know. I think it's it's one of the biggest splashes I've seen a watch make and I was kind of shocked we didn't we didn't it's also kind of shocking because I I mean |
| James Stacey | correct me if I'm wrong, all three of you own that watch, right? I love that watch. Uh yes. That is true. All three of us do on this one. Maybe that was the miss. I I don't know the RM2701. Oh okay. Okay, Jim. It's on payment. Sure you don't. It's on payment. It'll only take me another like 32, 33 years to pay for it. It's a piece unique too, right |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Clear carpet. Alright, cool. Alright, let's uh uh let's do one more, and uh this is kind of a weird one, uh, but I thought it'd be fun. It doesn't really have anything to do with the draft specifically, but like, why the hell not? If we'd let you add one watch to this collection that was not a new watch released, but was a vintage watch or a modern watch sold at auction over the last 10 years. So it changed hands. There was an opportunity in theory for you to purchase it uh over the last 10 years. Which auction watch would you add to your collection? Well, I guess by virtue of the snake draft, what? I I should start it? I think so. Alright, so my pick, uh, this was a no brainer for me. Um it's I don't think going to shock anyone who has ever met me, read anything or written, or listened to a single word of this show. Uh I'm gonna pick the Philippe Dufour Duality number double zero. Okay. Uh, which sold at Phillips in the same auction as Paul Newman's Paul Newman, uh, which is bananas that that happened, that those two watches sold in the same sale. Um I remember seeing them both at the Phillips preview in LA. Um and honestly, you put the two watches side by side and I could not have cared less about Paul Newman's Daytona. Um the duality is insane. It's like the manifestation of Philippe Dufour's like absolutely astounding brain and technical skills. Um I I don't know. I I this watch is everything I love about watchmaking and then some. And to have even been able to like hold this watch and put it on my wrist for a little while was was pretty awesome. So yeah, I think I mean the watch ultimately sold for just under a million bucks. It sold for 915,000. Uh and that's in in October 2017. Um I think if it's uh sold today, it would easily clear a million dollars, maybe clear two million, um just 'cause of where the market's at. But uh yeah, this was a no brainer. Like in fact, I wrote this question so that I could have an excuse to talk about this watch on the show. Oh, good pick. It's a sweet watch. What's your uh what's your pick, James |
| James Stacey | ? Um so this is uh this is a watch that has to have been auctioned in 2010 to 2020. Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has to have come up for sale at some point during the decade. Yeah. The one I really want is 2008, so I'll make a small adjustment to uh let's see. 2016. It would be Briggs Cunningham's piece unique fourteen sixty three steel black dial luminous markers. If we great choice two thousand eight is his arguably cooler um fifteen twenty six with the black hands and markers on a white dial, which went for four million dollars in two thousand and eight. So like who knows? It could be almost any number now. Uh but for ones within that decade, yeah, a Briggs Cunningham piece unique uh Patek I think could be sick |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, James, that's I don't know. That's a super super solid choice. It's a fun watch. Yeah, it's a fun watch. Uh that that's like the understatement of the uh the year so far. Yeah. Uh CB, what' |
| Cara Barrett | s your what's your fun watch pick? I'm doing another type paddock actually. I'm gonna pick the titanium um officer case watch that had reggae numerals. I can't remember what the reference is. Titani |
| Stephen Pulvirent | um. This is not not the titanium one with the diamond in the case back? Yeah. Oh, it is that one. Okay. That's the |
| Cara Barrett | one. Oof. Um It's really cool. And I what year was that? Gosh. Two thousand fourteen. Yeah. I think it was two thousand fourteen. Anyways, it was really amazing. And I think about it a lot. I did. I wish I could see that watch again. That's one that I just don't think I'll ever see. It was so cool. Yeah, I agree. Had the table table cut diamond I talk about ch all the time, but table cut diamond on the case back so you can see the movement through the diamond. 'Cause who knew that that's what you God. So awesome. Like |
| Stephen Pulvirent | , like who the to be a fly on the wall in that meeting. Man, that's like that's straight to the front of the guillotine line kind of shit. Like when the revolution happens, whoever commissioned that watch, they are first. That is some crazy shit, but I love I love that watch. So cool. John, alright. What's the last one here? What would you add to your collection. And it so this just has to |
| James Stacey | have been sold at auction uh in the la in during this decade that we're talking about. That's the only yes that's the only rule. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna take the Bao Dai. I think that's just like an awesome watch. It was for uh for a brief time in 2017, the most expensive Rolex, right? And then before before Paul Newman quickly came in like uh toward the end of the year and and uh took it over. Um but it's just like I mean I'm looking at it right now. I'm looking at actually at Arthur's article about it from 2017 and yep, this is what I'm gonna take. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Great choice. Uh cool. Well, I think we're gonna have to leave it there. I mean, we had a lot of other stuff we could have chatted about here, but uh I think I think we're out of time. Um, if we didn't answer your question, head over to the site, uh, drop it in the comments. So just go to hodingy.com. This will be on the homepage uh or somewhere easily findable and uh or you can click through in the show notes and go through and leave us comments and we'll we'll all be checking the comments. We'll leave replies for you there. Uh there's just not enough time to cover everything uh right right here on air but uh yeah thank you guys for doing this um I love doing these drafts we'll do another one soon enough next you know couple of months and uh maybe maybe I won't win next time. We'll see. You guys like that humble brag there at the end? Is that good? Yeah. Yeah. That was sub that was subtle. That was a that was a chef's kiss of uh humble brag right there. Thank you guys and uh thanks for putting up with me accidentally spoiling the draft uh and then being smug about it. Thanks, Phoebe. You deserve it. Thanks everyone who voted. Thanks, guys. Up next, Danny and I revisit a classic week on the wrist? Hey Danny, how's it going man? Hey Steven, it's going well. How are you doing? I'm doing good. I'm good. Uh it's good to have you here on a week on the wrist revisited. Um and I say that somewhat selfishly because this week we're actually gonna do a review that I did. Um which I guess a little weird. I'm like bringing you on to talk about my story, but I I hope your game. I hope that's cool. Yeah, who who's picking these? Who's uh who's in charge of the selection process here? So we'll see. This this one actually came about because we realized that we're coming up on four years since this was done. Um Gray, our wonderful producer, uh this is one of the first videos he worked on when he joined the Hodinky team. Uh it was the first time he and I worked together. So this this review holds holds kind of an important place in the uh mythology or the lore of Hodinky uh Hodinky radio. But this is a m a milestone week on the wrist. Yeah man. It's an important one. And it's one that like, I'll be totally honest, this this watch, which we'll introduce in a second, uh, this is the rare watch that like I find myself thinking about this watch not infrequently, which considering the volume of watches you and I both see in our day-to-day is is something something to take note of for sure. I'm like I'm with |
| Gray Corhonan | you. I think I've watched that video more than double digits uh times because it's just one of those watches you want to keep working at. You wanna but it's like that whole ASMR weird thing that goes on these days. You just wanna pretend you have it and the only way you can do that's through a through a week on the wrist sometimes. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. There's also certain watches I find where like watching them in motion there's sort of a like visual ASMR component where like there are certain things about the watch that just like they're the things where if you owned it you would end up like staring at your wrist while you're supposed to be paying attention to your boss in a meeting and look like a total asshole. Uh but if you don't have that, you instead kill time at your desk watching one of our our reviews, watching the watch go back and forth. |
| Gray Corhonan | I gotta hand it to you. You're very good at the like holding the watch in your hand and turning it uh w when when you're doing a a a review of watch, which is, you know, it is a weak on the wrist, but that's the kind of thing that I feel like any anybody with a watch is just doing half the time. I find myself taking my watch off and just like checking it out in a different light or just like what does it look like in the palm of my hand? Or just like a rand randomom things like that. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. We'll we'll get into this watch in a second, but I do find myself, there's there's one watch in particular, I have a vintage Grand Seiko that I find myself like putting on a table and then like looking at like crouching down to look at it perfectly side on so I can see like the edges of the case. But yeah, uh the camera work in this video, like I I upon re-watching this, I I don't tend to go back and re-watch my own reviews like over and over and over again. I'm not quite that vain. We're close, but not quite. Wouldn't blame me for it. But uh rewatching this one, it's the first time I'd seen it in probably over over a year, maybe, maybe a year and a half or two years even, and the production quality on it's fantastic, which like I have nothing to do with. That's purely Gray and Will and the the video team. Um but it was so cool to see how well this watch held up and and now we'll kind of like we'll introduce the watch. I mean it's an intro in this segment before, but uh this is the Jaeger LaCool master control date with sector dial. Um it's kind of a cumbersome name, but uh it's the sector dial JLC is is is what we're talking about here. Right. Um and this watch came out at SIHH 2017, so so basically four years ago this week or last week. Um and it was one of those watches that like we were still new enough in the vintage inspired kind of like heritage reissue world there that like people still paid attention. Like it was, it was a big deal that JLC went back in their archive and found something and like recreated it and did this special edition. Um the deal was it was it was originally I think only gonna be available at boutiques. I think they may or may not have lifted that. Um and it was it was originally gonna only be available for a year, and they extended that as well because they couldn't produce nearly as many as they had demand for uh in a year. So they extended that. I think it was produced for two or three years. But uh Yeah, I the watch I reviewed is is part of a trio. You know there was there was the time and date version which is what I reviewed there was a chronograph and there was the the geographic which is the GMT. And we went for the for the simplest one. The kind of historical background here is Jaeger found a chronograph in their archive with this sort of two-tone silver dial with blue accents. And that was the inspiration for this collection. Then they sort of scaled it both up and down to more complicated and less complicated. Um were you like were you paying attention to to this when it launched? Like do you remember this watch coming out |
| Gray Corhonan | ? Yeah, so for sure, and not just that, but you get this feeling from especially from a brand like JLC where its reputation is being sort of the watchmaker's watch, when they when you see this watch, it kinda hits you as so obviously good looking. Like sometimes a watch you just kinda see it and you know like, oh, it's simple but it works. And when when when I saw this watch it kind of didn't seem like something the JLC would do in a weird way. This kind of like half sport watch, but half like super classic, you know, circa 1930s design aesthetic. That's kind of just like where did that come from? And so, like, for me, that it it hit on these two these two kind of like converging paths and and I for so when I was just a viewer at the time it was one of those things where I was like, Whoa and that's why I've rewatched that video, you know, more than one time |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It kinda it kinda does that. Yeah. I agree. I mean like my my take on this watch at the time to put it simply was this thing is is freaking great and if you're at all inclined to buy it, you should like if you if you see this watch, you think you want it, you probably do want it and you're probably gonna be really happy if you buy it. Um you know, I had some caveats there, which is like I hated the straps these watches came on. Um which is like a complaint I have with many watches. They come on, you know, you buy an $8,000 watch and it comes on like a garbage strap. Um they came out of like a giant factory somewhere. Um, not my thing. But um other than that, like I didn't really have too many gripes. Uh and and looking back at the review, I can't really think of many many new ones, um, which we'll go through in a second when we break this thing down in categories. But um Yeah, I don't know. I mean I think the review itself stands up pretty pretty well. I'm pretty pretty happy with it. Um I I don't think viewers |
| Gray Corhonan | . And you can kind of tell you like it, but you're letting everybody know, like each thing in turn, like what this watch is offering you. And it's important because sometimes we do reviews, and it's easy to just kind of take for granted a lot of things that are going on on a on a particular watch and you see it and you kind of internalize the stuff and you kind of give a you know less than deep you know information dump on video. But for you, I was really appreciating when from every single section. Material, color, hands, dial, case. I mean it's all like that watch is offering you so much. And like you're saying, there is there was a sense of urgency around that. I mean it's a special edition. It wasn't limited edition, but if you did want it like the clock was you know, not to make a weird fun, but the clock was ticking. You should you should you should buy it if you want it. I'm a little upset if I didn't. Uh but like ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. Yeah, me too me too, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But uh I mean to your to your point about structure, like let's let's just jump into that then. Like let's let's go through we have some categories. Uh you know, we we don't use the same categories for every watch we do this with. Each review is different depending on who the author is, when we produced it, the the type of watch, all of that. Um but we've put together some categories here and uh Danny, I'll I'll throw them out and then we we can kind of hash it out together. Uh I'm I'm really interested in bringing your perspective to bear on this this thing I did, you know, a million years ago. Um I guess the first thing is like if you I've I've done it, so um I'm gonna let you do it here. Like if you had to give an elevator pitch on this, what would that be? So in this case, like let's say it's 30 seconds or less uh on the clock for you and like you've gotta tell somebody what this watch is and why they do or don't want it. I am looking at my rolling clock now and go. |
| Gray Corhonan | Alright. We're not talking about Rolex. We're not talking about Patek. You've got a simple, no-nonsense watch with a date. It's kind of a sport watch. It's kind of a dress watch. Could be your one watch for life. I think that's my elevator pitch on this one. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Dude, you hit that in like eleven and a half seconds. Uh I am impressed. And I also wouldn't add a single thing. Uh I think that is the exact perfect perspective here. Uh and I like where you start. I mean I think like you know it's it's really easy in in you know, it's really easy as we look back at the last couple of years and think that there are only like four or five watch brands that quote unquote matter, right? It's like everything is like a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek, a Richard Meal, an AP, like whatever. It's the same five to ten brands. And like often JLC probably wouldn't be on that list, and that would be a shame. Um, I think you know, JLC is doing super interesting stuff, they make exceptionally high quality watches for the price, and I think, you know, even if we set aside what JLC is, I think acknowledging that in some ways if you buy a luxury watch in the five to ten thousand dollar range in steel and it's not a Rolex, you're making a statement. You're saying I had the money to buy a Rolex and everyone knows about Rolex. Everyone would know I was wearing quote unquote a nice watch, whatever, and I made a different decision. Yep. Uh and that's that's cool. Like I think there's actual currency there. Um and this is one of those watches like when I was wearing it, peep people wanted to know what it was. And like my friends are used to me wearing silly watches all over the place. And like most of the time they don't even ask. The first time I showed up to like, you know, a bar wearing a longa uh on loan, people were like, What what the hell are you doing? Right. Uh now nobody nobody gives a shit. But um this is one of those watches like I got asked about by non-watch people and it was a great opportunity to be like, hey, there's this there's this thing called JLC and it's dope and you should know about it |
| Gray Corhonan | . And their movement history, I mean, you it's one of those brands where you can get deep, like you can you can justify, not that you have to, but I think it helps a lot of people to have to justify why they make that decision. As you get close to that six, seven, eight thousand dollar mark, and logically some people's brains just go, oh well, at this point, I'll just spring for a submariner or I'll spring for a date just because it's Rolex. But you can justify JLC as the movement that's been in some of the most well-known brands that you would wear, you know, historically speaking. I mean that's why they call them the watchmaker's watch brand. I mean their their movement history is so deep. So I can similar to like a zenith, you can really make the case for those kind of brands when you get into that universe. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. I I totally, totally agree. Um you know, you mentioned the movement and that that's one thing I said earlier, and we're breaking the categories a little bit here, but I do think this is important. Who's counting? Yeah, exactly. Um, we make the rules, right? Uh you know, I said earlier I don't have many gripes, and and I would say the one thing that looking back at this watch that if if you would ask me to kind of like picture it in my mind's eye where it didn't quite match up was the movement finishing. Um and I think Jaeger has has been known as as, you know, their movement architecture is amazing across the board. Like the technical side of the calibers is exceptional from the least expensive to the most expensive. The finishing varies greatly. You know, if you wanna buy a high complication from JLC, you can get finishing up there with anything, you know, really, really anything. Sure. Um when you get to the more accessible price point, you're certainly getting much better finishing and a lot more handwork than you're getting with something like an Eda movement, uh even an elaborate grade Eda movement, um, or something from Salita or whatever. But, you know, looking at this movie, yeah, it has a gold rotor, you know, it's got blued screws and like they're not fake chemical blueing, like the real heat blued screws. And like that's cool. I I think we've all gotten spoiled the last couple years with movement finishing, especially on the like more accessible price point. And so the movement didn't wow me quite as much, but that doesn't actually make me want the watch any less, if that makes sense. |
| Gray Corhonan | Does it make the case, because we're going to get into this later, about why I mean a brand a brand like Rolex you come back to why sometimes there's no shame despite the movement itself of having a closed case back. I mean at a certain level this the thing that you're net I mean we talked about taking your watch off and looking at it in your hand. But when you're wearing your watch, it's not, you're not looking at that. I mean, is there I I I tend to be on different sides of the fence depending on the watch. But at fifty seven hundred dollars, we know what the movement's doing for you. But this watch is all about sort of that style aesthetic on the front end. So I don't know what your thoughts are on would this watch have been better with a closed case back versus open |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Danny, I have spent dozens of hours thinking about this watch. Uh and it never occurred to me uh that that was like a swap we we could make. And I guess it's because like first time around, like I I thought the movement looked great. And I still think it looks great. I'm just not wowed by it. And I love the idea of this with a solid case back. Maybe it shaves another like 0.2 millimeters off the thickness and makes it even thinner, which is already one of the best things about this watch. Exactly. And then you get to you get to be that guy who's like, oh yeah, it's it's you know, yeah, it's a it's a mechanical watch, but like yeah, I don't I don't have to show you anything. Like I don't owe anyone anything. Um which that's interesting. I like I like that Danny. I like where your head's at. Let's do first up first thing. What is the first thing you notice when you see or hold this wat |
| Gray Corhonan | ch? Well from an inside baseball perspective, first thing I noticed was like huge stunt on your part, just like swapping out the strap. It was a great move, I have to say. Just like taking a watch this cool and being like, you know what? This would look cooler. This watch would look even better if I put this strap on to accentuate the dial features because honestly, sometimes like contrast can be too contrasty, and the blue aesthetic on the watch, you don't need a blue strap, like it's almost like too obvious, and I probably wouldn't lean to wearing a blue strap as an everyday option. And I think that uh the choice you picked really accentuated what I do first notice when I look at this watch, which is just like that soothing sector dial where it's the different shades of silver against that blue. It just it's such a calming watch. The watch just like feels so calming. That's what I noticed about this wat |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ch. Yeah. No, that's great. That's a great point. Um yeah, the strap thing was was a controversial choice in the in the hodinky office. You know, we had a lot of discussions about whether or not uh throwing a new strap, which is, you know, this is a couple hundred dollar strap. This is not like an inexpensive strap. Um and like is is it is it kind of cheating? Like is it are we grading on a curve here? Would it be would it be like uh would it be like you know, test driving a car but swapping out the wheels or something, you know, like that doesn't really count. So we talked about it and we figured, you know what, like most consumers these days are savvy enough to do this. If you're spending, you know, the full price of this watch, the strap's not a big difference. So we we decided to go with it. Um, and it's something that that ended up making its way into other reviews down the road and is now kind of a part of what we think about when we review a watch, is how to best present the watch itself. Um I I think for me, the thing I noticed first, honestly, is the the subtleties of the dial. Um, you know, like you said, this watch has a soothing quality to it, and I think part of why it has that is because yes, it's contrasty, but all of the surfaces have depth. You know, the the center pearled uh part has this almost like it's not like sandpaper, but it has like a grain to it, like a very subtle grain to it. And the the silver track has this radially brushed kind of circular brushed finish to it. And those details and even the way that the date window is cut, like you get this really nice tiny bit of shadow on the date, the date disc, like just enough to give you the impression of depth, but not so much that it looks like it's you know sunk to the back of the movement. Um I those subtleties really grab me. And and again, just looking at this watch first thing as I was scrolling through pictures of it, it's like I just wanted to zoom in and zoom in and zoom in. Like I just found myself wanting to get deeper and deeper into the watch. So uh yeah, that's that's what kind of gets me uh first looking at it. You know, we'll we'll we'll move along here. What's the best design choice made about this watch? What is what is the decision they made that could have gone wrong, but it broke broke right? They they did a great job |
| Gray Corhonan | . So this watch is sandwiched between you know its predecessor and the master control line and and now the m the current master control date. And both of them each do the same thing, which is they have applied numerals. And so for me, painting the numerals on the dial could have gone very wrong. A because when you start doing that, you run the risk of being too vintage evocative, you know, sort of trying too hard to go that route. But there's a simplicity to how it's done on this watch, which for me, those numerals make the watch in so many ways. Um it's just sort of like I love, you know, old uh matte dial uh Rolex watches because there's no white gold surrounds around any of the markers. It's just you know painted markers. And I love that this watch did that and because I did it in black, and because the whole dial is done in silver, and because it has this kind of like color motif that it just kind of worked for me. Um but it's one of those things where it could go it could easily go either way |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, no, I I think you're absolutely right. Um and I think kind of positioning it that way between the other the other watches in JLC's collection emphasizes that this this was purposeful. Like this wasn't just they did what they were doing, they they made a conscious decision here. And I have to say, I think Jaeger does a better job at that than a lot of watchmakers. Like I know many of the folks at JLC, I've visited the factory multiple times. I've sat with the design team. Like I know those folks, I would say pretty well. And and I have nothing but respect for them. And I I think they do a really good job that even when they're sort of like designing by committee, like all of these, you know, larger watch brands do, like they're real designers at the table, and there's people who have like a deep respect for the product across the organization. Um, you know, I I have in the past under previous leadership there, you know, I haven't visited under current leadership, but um under previous leadership, like I've been in the factory when the CEO is walking down the watchmaking benches, you know, making comments on how movements are being assembled and asking questions about dial furniture. And like they that brand has has through many regimes managed to maintain that sort of like deep respect for the product. And I I think narrowing it on the numerals is is a great way to demonstrate that kind of broader, broader |
| Gray Corhonan | point. It's actually a point that I find a lot of watches, it it seems to sometimes be the last thing that was thought, at least that's how it comes across. It's like the dial design in general is great, texture's great, case is great, but it's like not a lot of thought went into I don't think it's technically called a typeface when you're talking about numerals, but not a lot of thought goes into like the design of how those you know are approached when they're put on the dial. And I think it's extremely important. You really bond with a watch. You look at it all the time. You want everything to be thought through. And that's why that's one of my favorite parts on this watch. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. I'm I'm gonna go with a similar choice. I'm gonna go with the blue accents on this watch. Um, they're controversial. I know some people don't like them, some people think they're too bright, some people think the whole dial should have been monochrome. Whatever. Like sure, like I think the watch still would have been great in in any of those directions. But I think this little bit of of brightness and levity is is really nice. And I think it it takes what could be a vintage homage piece in a very basic, straightforward sense, and it it injects something new and it says like you know yes of course there have been light blue accents on dials going back forever like I'm not saying they invented something but like you know they they they weren't producing the same uh sort of like historical referent that everybody else would have produced. Uh and again it just shows that they're paying attention and and that thoughtfulness uh is important to me |
| Gray Corhonan | . No, I agree. 100%. I mean the blue makes this watch this watch. I mean it's the dis the the other like the general master control date is a very monochromatic grayscale design. And this adds the contrast to the black plus the blue and, it's what makes this particular model as unique as it is. Yeah |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Um okay, let's let's go to the opposite side of the coin here. Uh what's the thing you'd change? What do you what do you think they kind of like biffed or like a missed opportun |
| Gray Corhonan | ity? I kind of touched on it. I I still think close case back would have been really a really cool move on their part. I think it's kind of you know what makes Rolex kind of cool in its own way. It's like, yeah, our movements are awesome. You can go ahead and take a look, but we're just not showing them to you. But in a funny way, I kind of love that uh obviously the brand name, I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation, but GG Le Coult and then Automatique is on the dial, and then it just says Swiss made at the bottom, which I love that it's like French, French, English. I would have loved it, would have been at least make it automatic, you know? Like just just like let let's let's keep it simple or go full stunt and make Swiss made in French. Yeah. Either |
| Stephen Pulvirent | way That's I have never thought about that on a watch and now that is gonna drive me nuts. Oh my god. How have wow, I've been doing this a couple years and that is that's a new one for me and I absolutely hate it. Wow. Yeah it's what happens when you stare at a watch for two Oh no, Danny. Oh man. You just broke my brain. Shit. Um Well, I was I was gonna give them shit about the strap, but I think yours yours takes the cake. Um Yeah, the only addition I'll I'll have is I'll I'll uh sure I'll say the strap. Um I just think like I think sometimes watch brands over engineer the straps. Like earlier I mentioned like, you know, they feel like it's a nice watch. You should put a nice strap on it. I I actually don't think the problem is that these brands are cheaping out. I think the problem is that they they over engineer it. They're going for the highest grade, super stiff alligator, and they want the edges hand painted, and they want you know silver thread for the stitching. It's just like just make something soft out of nice leather that's gonna be comfortable the moment The. moment I put it on, it's gonna hug my wrist. It uses a pin buckle, which to give them credit, they used a pin buckle here, not a deployant. Thank you. Yep. Um but yeah, just like watch friends in general, just like be be cool about the straps like don't try so hard and like even you know what like this has nothing to do with this watch but while we're dropping dropping requests here uh like offer options just let people pick their straps. that L'ikes what they want anyway. It's like not a big deal. All right. We can we can leave it there. But uh I would say if those are the only things we want to change is the strap and maybe close the case back uh and maybe like quibble with the language of the dial text, which as a fight we're not gonna win. Uh I think this watch is doing okay. I think so too. Um all right, let's this is an interesting one. You know, we we this is a question we often do and we we just call it branded. Um if if you were gonna challenge another watch brand to make their version of this watch, whose would you like to see? And the the interesting thing here is like other brands have made their version of this watch both before this watch came out and since you know Patek does a version of this watch and Longine does a version of this watch like very diverse brands um whose whose version would you like to see |
| Gray Corhonan | ? Well, just to go even more high low, even last year Baltic did their version of this watch too, which I thought was pretty interesting to see. Yeah. And so it's definitely a design aesthetic that is popular from a historical perspective. And I think in the article you wrote, you showed off a lot of Omega advertisements where they had their own sector dials. I think Omega would crush a watch like this now. Like their own sort of take on it. I think a weird comp to make to this, which is like a totally messed up comparison, but another week on the wrist you did was the Seamaster Railmaster. Yeah. Um, which it's not similar, but at the same time, some of the things they did are similar. And I'm talking about like the painted numerals, um, the the texture of the dial. Um Omega also has a huge, you know, historical backlog to work with um and I think uh at a thirty seven to thirty nine millimeter size they could knock something like that out of the par |
| Stephen Pulvirent | k yeah I mean honestly you took the words right out of my mouth. Like I could not agree with you more. I think Omega is the the obvious runaway candidate here. Um like a modern Trezor with with a sector dial would be amazing. You know, especially like if they really did it with with one of the MetaS movements, you know, maybe put a little um anti-magnetique on the dial. Like they could they could go hard into that like thirties, forties scientific thing, uh, and I would want to buy every single one of those watches. Like they would just be sick. It would be amazing. I I kind of want there's zero historical precedent for this, but like it popped into my mind and I couldn't get it out. I would love to see what Seiko or Grand Seiko would do with the idea of a sector dial. And like as far as I know, there is zero uh precedent in Japanese watchmaking for sector dials. Like it is a European watchmaking thing. Um, but like I'm I'm kind of intrigued. Like, I wonder what the designers at Seiko would do if we said, like, here is all of the thought behind a sector dial, like, here is a hundred pictures of them and here is all of the thought process that went into designing it. Do with this what you will, but give us interpret it as you wish, yeah. Yeah, but like give us something grounded in these ideas and images and like I think we'd get something pretty cool |
| Gray Corhonan | . I agree. That would be awesome, especially Grand Seiko. I could like the dial finishing would just be like next level on a Grand Seiko center dial |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Be so, so insane. Uh all right, let's let's go to another named award. Uh we're we're tentatively calling this the George Clooney Helen Miren Award. Uh this is how well does this watch age? Um you know, we we could also call it I guess the the fine wine award if we didn't want to objectify to uh brilliant actors, but what the hell, why not? Um how do you think this watch is aged? |
| Gray Corhonan | Before I answer, I pitched to Gray that we should call this the Paul Rudd Award just because the man ages. Oh the man doesn't age. He just doesn't age. That's true. That's true. Interesting. Uh just had to get that in there. No, but uh I think I think would be really be having this conversation if it didn't age well? I mean it I mean it's fair place. I mean we could have been. I mean we could have been having this conversation for the exact reason that it didn't age well. But uh no, I think this watch ages amazingly. I think the fact that it was a special edition makes it age even better. I think the fact that it was made in a limited quantity, it's desirable for that reason. Who knows? Maybe we're tricked into loving it more because of that. I mean, you never know. You know, if something is readily available versus something that's completely not readily available. But I think just aesthetically, I come back to looking at photos of it often because I think it just I think it's a seriously to use the overused term timeless design. It really is |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I I totally agree with you. I think, you know, this this watch has aged exceptionally well. I think the fact that since then, other brands have really come out kind of hard in the direction of sector dials, including some micro brands. Like it's really I I won't say GLC was like ahead of the curve. Like sector dials were definitely a thing, you know, by the time this was happening. This this was squarely in the middle of the trend, not uh starting the trend. Uh, but it also wasn't a hanger on, you know, like this was this was of the moment. Uh, you know, when I look at this watch, it it kind of takes me back to to 2017 in watches and like what was going on and what the landscape was like and what our attitudes were and what was popular and what we thought was and wasn't possible. And that's kind of fun for me. And I think, you know, like you said, the fact that it was a special edition and only available for a short period of time uh helps. I think if you could go into a JLC boutique and buy this today, uh I would I would find it less appealing. Um but not not substantively so you know it's still an amazing watch but I I do think like there's something nice about the fact that now it's not there's not a crazy wait list, but like you also can't get one, you know? Yeah. Just straight up. |
| Gray Corhonan | I had a qu so just like not to break category, I forgot when we were saying this. Did this watch have loom? I don't think it has any loom on it, right? No, this watch has no loom. I might have like retroactively add that to my something I would change. I wouldn't put it in the hands, but I'd put little just little like classically styled plots around the outside edge. If it was |
| Stephen Pulvirent | possible. Okay. I think that's that's fair. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna defend the no loom. I'm gonna defend the no loom on this and say that I like that this watch flies in the face of the all sport watch everything mentality of the modern watch market. Uh and the fact that it's like the hands are open worked, there's no loom on it, it has a date window. It's like it it's kind of like uh a screw you in both directions. Like it's not a classical dress watch, but it's also n like defiantly not a modern sport wat |
| Gray Corhonan | ch. And it's like what are you doing in the dark with this watch anyway? Like yeah, exactly. Yeah, what do you do? And and also I have to go back, I just said I would put it just on the dial and not on the hand I wasn't gonna |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I was I was gonna let you ride that one out. But I'm glad I'm glad you called it. Yeah. Uh all right, let's let's do we got we got three more uh three more categories here and then I wanna just sum a couple things up here at the end and and think about where this sits in the the broader uh weak on the wrist pantheon, uh specifically in my very weird little uh oeuvre of of reviews but um what's the best pairing with this watch if you had to build a two-watch collection and let's let's keep it to modern watches just for the sake of simplicity here. Uh what's another watch you would buy where you could have these two and be extremely happy forever and ever? |
| Gray Corhonan | So this watch on its own, I would pair it with a sport watch and I'd pair it with a specific sport watch from Rolex that kind of exemplifies this jet set mentality. So I'd go GMT master. I'm gonna go Pepsi Bezel because I think going Batman would be a little bit too much of the blue, like straight up blue, you know, I agree. Get some re get some red in there. But that watch is a sport watch, but I've always thought of it as a more like cosmopolitan sport watch. Yeah. And I think that the personality that I'd envision myself as someone who would have these two watches as they would go really nicely together. I think that's a great cho |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ice. Uh I'm gonna go, I thought about the GMT. I'll be honest. That was that was on my short list. That made it to like the final three, I would say. Uh, and and for the same reason as you, I went Pepsi, not Batman. But ultimately, I think this watch would pair perfectly with the 321 Ed White Speedmaster. Ooh. Alright. I think they both have a mid-century sensibility. I think the this watch is super pared down. The other is is obviously complicated. Um the other watch is on a bracelet. This watch is only on a strap. Um and I also think there's something to be said for both of those watches being immaculately finished on the outside, but having incredible engineering on the inside. Um and I think they they both embody this sort of like understated mid-century whisper don't yell kind of taste. Uh and I find them extremely compelling |
| Gray Corhonan | uh next to one another. That is a great choice. And also it's a good choice because on the one hand you've got the JLC, which you can't get, and on the other hand, you've got the Ed White, which per year, you know, that's's it a tough get, but such a special one when you do, just knowing like what goes into making every single one of those three twenty-one speedmasters. Yeah, tot |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ally agree. Um, all right, what's what's your ideal use case? If you're putting this watch on and you can go anywhere in the world and be doing anything, what are you doing with this watch on |
| Gray Corhonan | ? Honestly, this is like a writer's watch. I mean like I'm writing a novel wearing this thing. Like I'm I'm traveling. I I'm've got like, you know, in some weird fantasy world where this makes no sense. My traveling typewriter with me, you know, like I'm just like pounding the keys and got this thing on some like super cool strap and just getting creative |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, it's funny. You and I went the same direction on this, and we did not talk about this prior to recording. I promise we didn't. But I said I my my notes uh say I would wear this on a trip to take pictures in Paris. Like, I imagine like I'm sitting in a wine bar, probably almost certainly with my wife. Uh, I've got like my camera sitting on the table, we got a bottle of wine between us, I'm wearing like you, know, like a shirt jacket or something. Like something nice, but like kind of casual nice. Um and it's just like things are things are laid back. Like I need to know the time. The dates helpful. I'm not banging this thing around. I'm not, you know, I don't need a sport watch. I don't need any complications. I want to be able to like wander around the streets and not worry about it. But I also want to be able to go pop into somewhere and have, you know, a bottle of wine and some sausage and like chill out and uh look look the part. So yeah. Yeah. I I think you used the word for the for the GMT earlier, uh cosmopolitan. Uh and I think that is very much what this watch is. Like definitely. I've I've seen a couple of these in the wild. Um, usually on watch guys, like at watch events, but I've seen one or two elsewhere. And like when I see somebody wearing this watch, my first thought is like that person must be interesting. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean it tak |
| Gray Corhonan | es some thought to get into this watch and to get this watch. And yeah, it's for me it's like it would be not that a watch is creatively inspiring, but it can be and it this would be. I mean I I think like much the same that I would take my my Rolex Explorer with me, you know, this watch scratches a really similar itch in a kind of slightly elevated fashion |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. Uh all right, this is the last one of the categories and I think I know what our answer is gonna be so we can move through this pretty quickly. One watch for life. Could this be it |
| Gray Corhonan | ? I I honestly think it could be. And we all like I I mean I've I've said this on a couple pods. I've whenever I'm looking for a watch, I just like imagine it would be. And because I would buy this watch by definition of like my own selection process, yeah, it it it could easily be a one watch for life |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I I totally totally agree. Uh you know, if I if I could provide one knock against this watch, uh is that maybe it's fifty meter water resistant, it's five bars, which like technically sure you could jump jump in a pool. Doesn't have a screwdown crown, it's only 50 meters. Like, I mean, it's probably fine, uh, but depending on what the terms of my warranty were, uh, I I either would or would not throw this on a NATO because I actually think this on like a gray or dark blue NATO uh would look sick uh in the summer. Um but yeah I'm I might recommend you go out and buy like a G Shock or something to go with it. But short short of that, yeah, this is this is a one-watcher for sure. Uh I I would recommend this. I have recommended this. I have, you know, I know for a fact many people have bought this because of conversations we've had. So uh hopefully those folks are enjoying the watch and are not mad at me. But uh yeah, I think this is a one watch for life for sure. I really hope they're not mad at you too. They should be happy. Yeah. If you're listening to this and you bought this watch because of this review and you're upset, like seriously hit, us up. Like, let me know. Uh, likewise, if you bought this watch and you love it because of the review, also hit us up. Uh, go to the site hodinggy.com and comment on the story and let us know, or hit us up on Twitter or Instagram. Um, I would love to know people's stories about this watch. Uh it's kind of like, you know, become a part of ho of like Hodinky lore. You know, it's it's become or it's become kind of like a part of like the Hodinky canon in a certain way. Like uh it's a watch that I think we leaned pretty hard into when it came out and and has become kind of like a marker of of our community in a certain way. So um yeah let us let us know if you have this and and what you think of it um just to to do one quick final wrap up um you know I think Danny w looking back at this one of the things that stands out to me is as I try to put myself back in the headspace to review this watch is how difficult it is to review time only and time and date watches. Um and for some reason I've continuously subjected myself to this over the years, uh mostly because that's where my tastes lie. But like, you know, whether it's this or the Cartier Tank American or the Omega Seamaster Railmaster you mentioned or an IWC Portuguese, a Rolex State Just, the Black Bay 58 from Tudor, or like there's a million of them. And like I think that's the Santos, right? Two. And the Santos, like I again, this is where my taste is, like it makes total sense. But you know, just before before we let people go, you know, I think this review for me um offered a way to think about how how to take something simple and really get the most out of it. And I I think that's where this watch itself is successful is that it it takes very little and does a lot. Uh is that does that make any sense or am I making some like weird connection here |
| Gray Corhonan | ? No, I think it does. And I think it also explains why this along with uh James uh Tudor GMT review are so rewatchable and so you know lasting. It's both of them are taking an aesthetic which is not original to them, but it's a known quantity. It's a simple design. It can be executed extremely poorly and has been by others. But individually both of those watches nail that and I think that's just a testament to what makes what the inexplicable nature of what makes a watch great and what makes us love them. I couldn't have said it better myself, my friend |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . That's what I'm here for. Just to say things, just to say things the best way possible. I love it. Uh well, thanks for coming on the show, man. I really appreciate it. And thanks for humoring my uh weird nostalgic desire to uh look back at a story and video I did over or almost four years ago. Uh and uh to kind of, you know, I don't know, take a trip down horological memory lane |
| Gray Corhonan | . No no worries. Next week what is Railmaster week after Santos? I'll be back, you know, for all the ones who |
| Stephen Pulvirent | 'll we'll do a run through of all of Steven's time only or time and date weeks on the wrist. Uh spoiler alert, the watchers are almost always steal. They almost always have a white, silver, or black dial, and my take is almost always less is actually more. Uh so there are everyb everybody now knows the series, uh, but hopefully we'll get them get them to come back. We should do that as a spinoff pod, just you and me. Uh I'm here for it. I'm here for it. We could jump on Clubhouse, do it there, do something silly. Let's do it. Um awesome. Well thanks, Ben. Really appreciate it, and uh hope to have you back on the show soon. Thanks, Steven. |