What We Learned At LVMH Watch Week 2021¶
Published on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:00:00 +0000
Three brands released more than a dozen new watches – and we've got all the details.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, hosts Stephen Pulvirent, James Stacey, and Jack Forster discuss the watches unveiled at LVMH Watch Week 2021, the second annual digital trade show featuring Bulgari, Hublot, and Zenith. Tag Heuer notably skipped the event, with CEO Frédéric Arnault teasing a major partnership announcement coming in early February.
The conversation centers on three major releases. Zenith's El Primero Chronomaster Sport Chronograph generates the most buzz, featuring an upgraded movement (the El Primero 3600) that addresses manufacturing complexities while maintaining the brand's high-beat heritage. The watch's striking resemblance to the Rolex Daytona sparks debate, though the hosts acknowledge Zenith's historical connection to the Daytona movement and conclude the design draws legitimately from Zenith's own archives. They also discuss Zenith's A385 revival and debate the merits of the controversial 4:30 date position.
Bulgari impresses with high-end complications and artistry, particularly three peacock-themed pieces: the Divas Dream Peacock Disque, Tourbillon Lumière, and diamond edition. The hosts praise Bulgari's ability to execute ambitious creative visions, comparing them to Cartier and Hermès. They also discuss new Octo Finissimo S models in steel, noting how the brand is expanding beyond exotic materials to embrace the current market preference for steel sport watches.
Hublot showcases materials innovation with an orange sapphire flying tourbillon with visible micro-rotor, new Orlinski ceramic models, and advances in proprietary alloys and carbon treatments. The hosts credit Hublot for exceptional materials R&D that often goes unrecognized by traditional watch enthusiasts. Throughout the discussion, they reflect on how digital presentations have become the new normal for watch launches, noting both the convenience and the loss of personal connection that defined traditional trade shows. They conclude that 2021 releases will likely be more responsive to current market conditions than typical long-cycle product development allows.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Stephen Pulvirent | Watch brands tend to work on long product cycles, right? Like when you see something come out, it's not something that was decided six months ago or a year ago. It's usually something that the idea started three years ago, five years ago. However, uh, last year forced everyone to kind of adjust. And I think what we're gonna see in twenty twenty one is going to be much more responsive to the moment we're living in than watch releases typically are. And I'm very curious to see what some of the other big players in the industry do and what they think they've learned over the last year and how that impacts uh not just those of us kind of covering the industry, but consumers. What's what's gonna be out there for people to buy, what are people gonna be able to Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polvern and this is Hodinky Radio. Yesterday morning, LVMH hosted a digital press conference to kick off LVMH Watch Week 2021. Uh this is the second annual one group trade show. They picked two very, very strange years to launch it, but they're making it happen anyway. We weren't quite sure it was gonna happen, but Bulgari, Hublow, and Zenith uh ended up launching a slew of new watches this week. Um, you'll notice that Tag Hoyer was not listed there. Uh you're gonna have to listen to the rest of the episode to learn why, but it's for a pretty good reason. Uh I've done a ton of trade show coverage over the years, but I thought I'd bring in Jack and James to give me some additional perspective on these things. The three brands we're gonna talk about took really different approaches for what looks like their 2021 collections, and I think we can learn a little bit about each brand as well as a little bit about the watch industry more broadly from the direction that each of them took. So I'm not going to get too much into it. We get into all the nitty-gritty details, all the new watches. If you want to learn about what happened in watches this week, this is your chance. Um, I will say right off the top, uh, there was a small technical problem with my microphone. Uh, you're gonna hear my audio quality will shift a little bit in the first like two or three minutes of the episode. It shouldn't impact anything else, but thanks for bearing with us on that. So without further ado, let's do this Hey guys, good to see you. Great to see you too. What's going on? Feels like we're back in the trenches, man. It's trade show time. It's what? We made it twenty-five days into the year and it's trade show time already? First first trade show of the year. |
| James Stacey | James, have you gotten um kebab for everybody? Yep, yeah, yeah. I I made uh it it took some it took some doing the you know, the the trade the kebab trade laws are a little bit different now than they were uh previously. You know, you gotta basically gotta buy him a seat on a plane uh and get 'em over here. And then it's tough 'cause obviously I want mine in Toronto. Jack needed his in New York. Steven, yours is good pretty cold by the time it got too much. Yeah, mine's mine was mine's a little lu |
| Stephen Pulvirent | kewarm out here in uh Santa Monica. But uh yeah, guys, it was uh it was fun this morning. We got to uh yeah, like I said, be back in the trenches. I mean, uh on on my end, I was up, you know, pretty early before the sun. Um you guys, I think on the on the East Coast, it was a little, a little more manageable, but connected to Switzerland, had a slew of press conferences and we got, I would say, uh a pile maybe of new watches is a safe way to describe it. M |
| Jack Forster | m-hmm. We got a bunch. We actually got more than I thought we were gonna get. And uh it really seemed like it seemed to me like LVMH was really leaning into this as like their primary communication tool for the first half of the year |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . With one notable exception. Yeah, not everyone was there. Exactly. Uh which we will talk about in a second. But uh yeah, this is this is the second annual uh L L V M H watch week. Um, you know, last year was the first one, twenty twenty, um, which was a strange year to launch a new initiative like this for many reasons. Um, you know, COVID was already starting to pop up in China. Um, you know, there were some political tensions with the US and Iran. So not everybody went last year. It was, it was kind of a strange kickoff. Uh and things only got weirder from there. So uh I think I think we all kind of doubted whether this show was even gonna happen. Like we just didn't know uh if it was gonna happen this year, but we got word a couple weeks ago and LVMH pulled it together and we we got some new watches through a mix of you know press conferences, press kits, digital experiences, all of that stuff. Um so we haven't seen the watches in the metal, which is is obviously a big bummer uh compared to a normal show, but I don't know. I feel like I I've got a pretty good handle on what was released. How about you guys |
| Jack Forster | ? Yeah, you know, and it was a funny thing. I mean L VMH watch week last year felt like a sort of you know supplement to business as usual and this year it feels like this is how we're doing business now, you |
| Stephen Pulvirent | know? Yeah, I agree with you. Like this this didn't feel weird to me at this point. How about how about for you, J |
| James Stacey | ames? I mean I I think all of this still feels weird. You know, I've done a handful of these conferences where you log in and kind of do a Zoom thing and and you see some names that you might recognize in the field and and some people, you know, the the the folks from brand sit there and talk about it. I still think it's an incredibly strange way to um I'm not that there's another option. I'm not saying that anyone made a choice here that you know they had A, they went with B. Um But just like it's it's such a strange way to take a presentation of a small product. You know, like I think it'd be it's one thing to maybe show a movie trailer in a fashion not unlike this. It's another thing to maybe launch a car on a stage and people watch the video if they can't be in the room. But like the the kind of like the the the like simple currency of watch launches for the history of watch of watches have been like face-to-face meetings with four or five people or three people. You, a couple people from the brand, maybe somebody with a camera, uh, that sort of thing. And now, and now that's all you know, obviously not not happening. And and the the the thing that always kind the thing the thing that weighs in for me is like it's one thing if this is something that we're doing for these years when you can't travel due to the pandemic and and such but it's another thing if the whole industry shifts and doesn't need the shows after this, or feels that they don't need the show after this |
| Jack Forster | . I mean you guys uh have both been to more than one trade show. I I get the feeling that the industry would vastly prefer for uh for their products to be launched first of all face to face with actual prototypes or or working pieces there. And um, you know, personal contact has been uh pr and personal relationships through personal contact have been such a big deal for the Swiss watch industry. And and this doesn't feel like something um like I feel like the brands under |
| Stephen Pulvirent | stand the necessity, but they're not they're not happy about it. Yeah, I I totally agree with that. I mean I think I I think James your your concern is is well placed. Uh and I also think Jack is correct that those are the reasons why like it will be I think the industry will be resistant to keeping things this way. You know, there's been lots of chatter in like, I know I'm talking to two non-sports guys here, but like there's been lots of chatter about all of the like new rules and new divisions created to make pro sports work. So like, you know, baseball changed some rules, hockey realign the divisions, that kind of stuff. There's lots of concern. Like, are those things gonna stay because fans and players will get used to it and whatever is this kind of like a way to shoehorn change in. I think in the watch world, A, it's inherently super conservative. And B, like like Jack said, so much of this is personal and I think that even comes through in the sorts of presentations we saw this morning. Like, you know, I've been following some some of the fashion week stuff going on, and in absence of physical fashion shows, you know, designers are doing these amazing sort of multimedia projects. They're bringing in, you know, set designers who might have been working on Broadway before the pandemic. They're bringing in film directors who aren't directing films right now. They're using really interesting spaces. They're mailing fabric collections to editors, like they're really going all out here in a way where like the presentation is a creative act and it's part of the product. Uh, whereas this morning, you know, like LBMH did a perfectly good job on this. This isn't meant as a knock against them, but like it was a bunch of dudes looking at the camera talking about a watch that they were holding looking at the camera. Like it it was essentially a facsimile of what we would have gotten in a room, but without any of the personal connection. Is that does that seem right to you guys or am I missing something? |
| Jack Forster | I think it's a little bit of an expression of the um desire for, you know, doing things in person. Um, and the fact that we you know we can't do things in person. I mean, I felt like at the presentation, so uh it, you know, just so everybody understands, there was a digital presentation for LVMH Watch Week for Press, ran about an hour a and half uh and there it was uh hosted by the CEOs of Bulgary and uh Zenith and Ublot and um you know the it's it's it's interesting, like the really poignant feeling that I sort of got from all three of them was like they really wished that they could do this in person and they couldn't |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I c I completely agree with that. Um let's before we get into the watches, um, I want to talk about a couple other kind of like big picture things here. I I guess one is let's address the elephant in the room, right, which is the tag hoyer is not a part of LVMH watch week this year. They were last year. That's when we got the anniversary, the um 160 years silver limited edition Carrera. But we did not get anything from tag this year. Uh everybody was kind of speculating ahead of time. I don't know what you guys heard, but the chatter I heard was just like, oh, you know, tag's doing its own thing. Does tag think they're not part of LVMH watches in the way that like Bulgary used to maybe not think of themselves as You know, there was all kinds of like honestly just like bullshit chatter. Uh turns out there's there's a reason. Like there's a real practical reason here. Uh, and none other than Frederick Arnaud, uh, gave us the reason uh in a in a pre-recorded video, uh basically saying that he knows everybody's asking why they're not participating. Uh said that they had a really good 2020, it's not a sign of any anything bad. Uh, and that actually it's it's kind of an indicator of something exciting. That they have big news coming the first week in February. Uh they said it's quote, the biggest partnership ever for the brand. Uh we can all speculate on what that is. Now it's And it's uh it's always fun to speculate about what's uh going on with these things, but we have no data. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing that you miss from the physical shows, right? Is like if there was a physical show and like we walked into let's say Basel World and they're just like wasn't a tag hoyer booth there, you know, we'd have what e we each probably of two hundred people we could start calling and trying to track down and running into getting, you know, a sausage out on the street for lunch and like whatever, you know, and and very quickly the right answer would surface. But everybody doing this in like random Instagram comments and on each other's comments platforms and DMing on Twitter. Like that's just not an effective way for that kind of scuttle butt to like get out, right? |
| Jack Forster | Yeah. Can you imagine a scenario where it's uh day one of Basel World Press Day, which I think was a Wednesday, usually, and you walk into Hall One and all the L VMH brands are there, but Tag Query is not there and uh the only thing you hear is, Oh, we've got our own, you know, kind of like big announcement coming up in a couple of weeks. Like that's an unimag that that was, as recently as two years ago, a completely unimaginable scen |
| Stephen Pulvirent | All right. Let's let's get into the watches. I'm gonna st let's start with Zenith. I was kinda debating about which brand to start with here, whether it was it was Zenith or I think Bulgari was the other candidate for me. No, no shaded Hublow here. I actually really like a lot of what Hublow came out with. But um I think it's safe to say, and please contradict me if if you disagree, uh I think the biggest news of the week is Zenith's El Primero Chronomaster Sport Chronograph. |
| Jack Forster | Very big news. It wasn't part of the, you know, technically, it wasn't part of the LVMH watch week rollout because we heard about it earlier. But uh it was certainly uh a watch that got a lot of people talking, and it seems to have taken even Zenith by surprise. Uh Julian Tournair in the in the presentation of day was he he was being very honest. Uh uh I think he see he he he said uh we really didn't see that coming. I mean we thought we had like a nice cool watch here but, we hadn't we really didn't think it was gonna generate as much buzz as as it did. |
| James Stacey | And he seemed to mean it. Yeah. I don't know, James what what what's your thoughts? Yeah, I would agree it's pr it's the biggest uh you know, news of the week as far as this goes. I mean it's been already been a pretty strong year for uh chronographs in general, uh despite our our relatively short tenure into twenty twenty one. But yep, uh I I think this is probably the biggest uh it's it's week kind of landing page. No shade towards any of the brands or the specific models, but a lot of the stuff isn't that easy to understand. This is all stuff designed for fans of the brands that are making it almost almost exclusively. Whereas I think there's a I don't I I mean if you it obviously helps to know Zenith, but I think that if you were in the market, you could see this watch and just understand it as a peer for whatever else is at that price point. Um it's you know, a fairly straightforward thing as uh a as far as the the assumptions it makes |
| Jack Forster | . Like you know the I mean the the El Primero four hundred is it's a wonderful legacy movement of the three movements that debuted in nineteen sixty two uh uh nineteen sixty nine excuse me, as the first self-winding chronograph movements. It's the only one that is still in production. As we all know, it almost went out. Um, you know, before a giant order from Rolex for the Daytona brought it back. Um but it's it's it's an anachronism. You know, uh I can't remember the exact figure that I heard the last time I was at the Zenith factory, but there's like the screws. There's an absurd number of different screws that are unique to not only the movement, but to their particular place in the movement. And something like 40 screws. I mean it's crazy. So that kind of thing is really, really expensive to do. And for the El Primero 3600, which is the movement in the CoronaMaster, they really try to like if you can if you can cut down from using 40 different screws to using 10 different screws or five different screws, you have not only made life much, much easier for watchmakers, but you've also improved margin as well. And then on top of that, you add, you know, what they've done with uh making the center chronograph hand go around as rapidly as it does. I mean, it seems like a really, really solid, not only respectful but logical upgrade to the EP four four hundred. I just wonder whether whether they're gonna roll it out in uh different watches. Uh, I'm sure they're going to. I'm you know, I mean you don't do something like this just to put it out in the Chronomaster. Um, but I also hope they kind I kind I really hope they keep the EP four hundred around uh as much as it is by current rational modern manufacturing uh processes it's a nightmare to produce. I mean like just just on the screws alone, like that many different screws makes zero sense. But there's something kind of charming about it |
| James Stacey | . One has to assume they have a lot of them as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's also true. That's an excellent point. That's also true. Very good point. We we saw this for years with Omega, where they would they would launch a new whatever the one that went from the twenty five hundred series into the eight thousand series and the other ones, they stay tick, they tend to they might be discontinued, but they tend to stick around a little while while they bl burn through the stock until they hit whatever that magic number is for service, and then you |
| Stephen Pulvirent | don't see the watch anymore. Yeah. I mean, service is a really interesting thing, James, right? Like Jack Jack mentions you know, you go from 40 screws to 10 screws and it makes your watchmaker's job easier and it improves your margin. It also makes servicing much easier, because like, as anyone who's owned a vintage watch can tell you, like inevitably you you take it in to get serviced, and the watchmaker's like, oh, the one component that isn't working is the one component that was custom made for only this watch, and they're like, you know, $2,000, if you can find one, it's gonna take me six months or you can get one fabricated. And it's like, okay, great. That's super, super helpful. So I I think, you know, as as they start to, as Zenith starts to think about uh these watches not just short term but long term as well, that you kind of get that impact on on both ends, which I I think is really nice |
| James Stacey | . Yeah. And I I I think with this one, it's also interesting, you know, that because service I I think service is one of those things that w only a certain type of watch enthusiast talks about or considers at large. It's probably people who buy and hold on to watches long enough to ever see them require a service and then they learn what that experience is actually like. I think a lot of brands have made some some leaps in the last few years, certainly with extending warranties. Warranties are now much longer than they were previously. But when you when you buy like a a really high VPH chronograph, service legitimately matters because there's so much happening and it's happening at such a higher rate of uh force and speed within the movement. And it i I think it genuinely it I would be much more concerned with the service profile of a movement in a watch like this than I would be in a three-hand dive watch that like conceivably could just go for a long time well past its service uh window. |
| Jack Forster | And James, you know, I think you've raised a really interesting and uh a really interesting and really valid point that not necessarily a ton of people think about, but there is a there's a lot of philosophical debate uh in the watch community and among and among watchmakers about whether or not high beat is really whether it's worth it. And you know, Roger Smith, for example, he's vehemently opposed to high beat. Uh you know, to him, you make a watch with the best possible materials, uh, you make it with uh a really well adjusted escapement, and you make sure that everything with the teeth profiles to uh you know how you polish the pinions, you know, is at a top-top level. And if it's running at 18,000 uh you know VPH, it can run you know and you and you use decent oils, it can run for a really, really, really long time, not only without needing service, but also without showing any variation on its rate. And now you take a watch like the El Primero that or you know, or some of the Seiko high beats that runs at thirty six thousand VPH, and you know, those things are I mean, I I don't know, I'm not a watchmaker, but intuitively it you know, you sort of say to yourself, Okay, one of these things is designed to run it you know, it's uh it's sort of like a ready, steady go thing and and you you don't feel like it's gonna need any attention from you for, you know, the next 10 years or so. But with a high beat movement, there's always a little anxiety about whether or not uh it's gonna need uh you know an, intervention at some point. Uh you know, sooner than ten years |
| James Stacey | . Yeah, and I it it's inter it's interesting because in in my mind, as it does with most of these things, is I I think back to cars at some level. And like I I let let me be very clear, I'm not sure if But I'm not comparing Roger Smith stuff to a diesel truck engine by any stretch. But that's kind of the thinking behind. I don't think he'd uh I I think he would actually appreciate the comparison. Like imagine uh imagine uh the the motor that's in a a boat is just designed to kind of hold a steady state for a really long time and operate for a maximum number of hours with the minimal amount of anything, and it does so at a lower RPM. Uh a as soon as you start talking about engines that can do seven, eight thousand, nine thousand, almost ten thousand, over ten thousand, then you get into stuff like motorcycle engines and and Formula One engines and these things can ref much higher. They have all sorts of special component trees so that they don't just come apart. Uh they have to be balanced very carefully, which I'm I'm assuming plays in some way to uh to watch making as well. But also you just have to have parts that are gonna be there for the wear and tear. Yeah. I guess we should I gu |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ess we should probably talk about something other than this one watch from Zen. Well before we before we're not wrong, Jack, but I I will say, I mean, the the new movement in this is is one of the only new new movements we got. I mean there are two like really significant new movements, this and then one from Hublow that we'll we'll talk about in a second. But um you know uh the the other big news with this watch is uh the controversial news with this watch, which is that when you first look at it, it looks exactly like a Rolex Daytona. Like there's there's like no really two ways about this. You know, like when the press release r landed my inbox, I was like, oh shit, Zenith is making a Daytona, but with an El Primero, which obviously has this complicated history with you know Rolex buying El Primero movements, pulling them back to four Hertz from five Hertz, that's a whole thing you can read it. And on a certain level, I feel like if on a certain level I feel like if anybody if anybody gets to do that, it's a good one. Yeah, I I agree with you entirely. And and I think that's why like instead of it landing in my inbox and me being like, Ugh, this garbage again, I was like, Oh history. |
| Jack Forster | So here's here's here's the weird thing. Um I had the same reaction that you did. And then I actually sort of broke it down and I went down a mental checklist of things that were identical, things that were similar and things that were not similar at all. And the actual points of correspondence are almost non existent. Like what it basically came down to was the light hits the ceramic bezel on the zenith, kind of in the same way that it hits the bezel on a modern Daytona with a black, you know, with a black ceramic bezel. You know, and the funny thing is that's all it takes. You know, like it's like a it's like um making a Halloween costume, you know, in five minutes uh you say to yourself, All right, I want to go as Batman, but what's the thing that says Batman instantly with the least amount of uh effort? And there there actually is almost no similarity between those two watches, but the way that uh the the sort of recognition factor of the way that the light hits the ceramic bezel is enough to make you go, oh, oh, Daytona |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I mean Zenith Zenith gave uh an explanation that I found relatively convincing. Like, you know, I was still a little bit skeptical, but but I found more convincing than I expected uh of like where a lot of these design decisions come from. You know, that the case shape, the pushers, the bezel, um, the the even like the minute track, right? Like every little detail essentially is pulled from a watch from Zenith's history. So the idea is that this watch is not a Daytona clone, it's a sort of pastiche or uh compiling together of traits from Zenith's past. Uh and that's that's interesting. What I will say is at the end of the day, no matter how right that explanation is, and no matter how right you are, Jack, which I believe you are, uh like for most people, this is a zenith daytona, right? Like that's how most people are going to like encounter this watch, no |
| James Stacey | ? I in my in my mind, they're they must have reached a point in the design thing where they go like, oh, this is beginning to really follow the format established by the moment And then they decided not to deviate, really? Yeah. Um, I mean there's definitely tweaks. Uh there uh you know it's it's not it's not like it's exactly the same size. It's it's uh it's similar in many ways but different. But of course if you look at them, if if you put them right next to each other, they look super similar. And the I I would keep this as specific as possible because obviously the the conversation of doing things that follow Rolex's movements as a whole secondary market to existing within the watch world is its own thing. Yeah. Uh everything from similarities to homages to clones to replicas, right? And I don't think that's what we're dealing with the with at all with this Zenith, but I personally like Zenith when they're certainly not trying to be Rolex. Um I I have such a huge fondness for the previous Chronomaster case. Uh it's it's a little bit more classic. It's a little bit more there's something a little bit more um 60s about it than than what this new one is. And I haven't seen this new one in the metal. It could be entirely different when you put it on your wrist. But it it wasn't so much just the watch that that it looked like a Daytona, but it bothered me that it looks like a Daytona and it doesn't look that much like previous Chronomasters. Inter |
| Stephen Pulvirent | esting. Yeah, I I don't know. I I keep going back and forth on this watch. Like part of me wants to be like, ugh, it's it's a Daytona clone. And then part of me is like, all right, there are very compelling arguments that that's not the case. And the biggest thing is like, you know, to Jack's original point, as usual, Jack was right from the start, but like you know, the big thing here is like this is a this is a watch that has a black dial or a white dial with contrasting subregisters, and it's in steel, and it has a black ceramic bezel. Can Rolex really like own that? Like it it seems a little uh unreasonable of us as like people analyzing this market and as collectors and enthusiasts ourselves to be like, okay, any black or white dial steel chronograph with a black ceramic bezel, boop, daytona. Like, that's that's not fair. That's that's an unrealistic expectation, in my opinion. I I don't know what you guys think |
| James Stacey | . Yeah, I mean I I would agree. I in in my mind I I it doesn't it doesn't bother me the way the watch looks. I think it's a good looking watch. And certainly we're not talking about anything that's new to the watch world. Watches come out all the time that are from a similar time frame and that look end up looking very similar. Of course if we go back in time, there were times where one designer managed to make roughly the same design brief for several big brands. Yeah. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Uh the Daytona is a is an eminently popular model, which means there's more than likely room for people who would just like a similar aesthetic, but now they can get what is arguably a more interesting movement. Uh I I I'm not wild about the I don't know why you would go through the the whole let's make a brand new movement and still put the date at four thirty. It's a bigger issue for me than than what the watch looks like versus |
| Stephen Pulvirent | a Rolex. So that's funny. That was the last thing I wanted to bring up before to Jack's again original point here. Uh we should probably move on from talking about this one watch. But uh the last thing I want to talk about is the date at 430. I know James hates the date at 430. I hate the date at 430. I know Jack is less vitriolic about it, but also prefers not to have the date at 430. Uh I don't know. For the El Primero, like it's the one watch where like the date goes at 430. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I just it's in the original design and I've gotten used to it. Maybe I have you know date Stockholm syndrome here, but like I don't know. For the El Primero, it it doesn't bother me at all. And I actually would find it more I mean, you know, it's been there for a million years. Um |
| James Stacey | I sort of don't care at this point. I think it looks a lot better in the black. Because it's a matched date uh matched eight window. Um I I'm not I don't think it looks bad. I just I have uh I'd like it's not Zanith's fault. Uh they did a perfectly fine four thirty date. It's still a four thirty date. All right. You know what I mean? Yeah, I got you. Uh all right let. L'ets's Would it have bothered you for the watch to come out with no date? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | No, I would have loved no date. It would have been perfect. Yeah. Ye |
| James Stacey | ah. And a ghost, a ghost position on the crown. Sure. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you want. Uh all right, other watches. I'll I'll stop digging. Yeah, let's let's quickly cover the rest of what Zenith did uh and then move on to Bulgary. Um Alright, so over the last year we've gotten a couple of these like re-releases from Zenith of the of the original El Primeros, and they're they're finishing it off now. So the original 1969 El Primero came in three variations: there was the A384, A385, and A386. Um, they've already re-released the other two, the 84 and the 86, but today we got the A385. So it's got this sort of like smoky, sort of like orange gold sunburst style thing. It reminds me of like an old Fender guitar almost. Um and uh it comes with an optional uh ladder bracelet, which personally is my favorite thing about the El Primero. Uh so if I were gonna get this watch 100% on the ladder bracelet, um, how do you guys think this, the the A3, 85 revival stands up uh on its own and then against the 84 and 86 |
| James Stacey | ? Yeah, I'm I'm an eighty six guy, deep down, and I do I thought the three eighty four, which I I was lucky enough to see in person, I guess, at Basel last year. Uh sorry, Basel two years ago. Um and uh I but I I like like I said previously that kind of more zenithy case and dial layout. And I know that the the 384 and the 385 are are based on on reference models, so there's not one more zenithy than the other, but just the one that looks more like a contemporary uh Chronomaster with the Tricolari dial dial and uh th these other ones uh they look pretty good. I think the photos of this new one, the the dial colour uh is definitely something. I wonder why it's one of the an another one of these ones that just would have been pretty nice to have seen in person. That color is pretty fantastic. Uh hey James, w how do you feel about the ladder bracelet? I like I like the ladder bracelet. I think it aesthetically it's really cool. I'm not a huge bracelet guy, and then of course, uh bracelets that have holes in them mean that you have little holes for your arm hairs. Uh which which is always something that that strikes me with those with those you know rally rally straps or ladder bracelets or that sort of thing. Um so I I I think for the right wrist, no no question. Um I I think they look really cool. Uh I I think it's it's one of those hallmark things. So like if you're a zenith head you,' you'rere gonna dig that it has the ladder bracelet. And if you're not, it might be one of those things that gets you a little deeper into the brand. Uh so I like that kind of callback that doesn't really insist upon itself all that highly. So that that I I think functionally it makes sense. Um, I I think that you know, especially with the kind of big chunky case and short crown, uh probably or uh short lugs, it's probably just killer on leather, right? Super 70s. Good |
| Jack Forster | kind of feel. You know, I've actually never had a chance to wear one of the rev actually either a vintage either a vintage or a revival uh watch on a ladder bracelet. But it's one of those things um, you know, if I put one on, I would definitely feel like it's like nineteen seventy-two for at least the next two |
| Stephen Pulvirent | weeks. I I totally agree with you guys. Um in hindsight, James, I think you're probably right. Uh while I love the ladder bracelet in concept, uh it probably would look real weird with my hairy wrists. So I would probably avoid wearing it for all of your sake more than mine. The wrist shots would not be enjoyable to look at. But uh yeah, I I think in general with these three revivals and and a couple other other revival pieces as as well, but specifically these three, I don't think Zenith gets enough credit for them. I'm I'm gonna kinda like fly their flag here. I think we pay a lot of attention to like Omega's revivals and how how faithful they are down to the screw and like really go hard. Uh Zenith is doing a lot of that same research. I mean, as far as I know, they they're not like laser scanning every component, but I you know, I've seen some of these revivals next to the originals. Uh, you know, specifically the A386 when we we shot it for the Hodinki magazine, and like the they're they're pretty damn close. Like they did a really, really good job. Um so I I I just want to kind of you know toot their horn a little bit here and and say I think what they're doing is interesting. And from my perspective, I really hope they continue. Like there's lots of great watches in Zenith's history and I would love to see them lean on that a little bit a little bit more and to to not be afraid to shout about it. Like, you know, it's I think okay for them to say, look at what we're doing. It's really cool. And if you missed it the first time, pay attention now. Like this is this is as good a time as any to become a Zenith enthusi |
| James Stacey | ast. No, I I would I would agree with that assessment. I think I think you know in at their price point, their main competition in my mind would be like an Omega or a Brightling, both companies that are doing really incredible work in the kind of new vintage throwback style models. And then, of course, you know, we I I shovel a lot of praise on longines for being really good at remaking watches and making watches that people want to buy today that are based on watches from X number of years ago. And I think that uh Zenith is doing the same thing. They're just operating at a different price point. Uh I think they're both they're both they've both been super successful with at the same game, just uh you know, as conceivably to different buyers. Yeah |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Alright. Well, you know, uh Zenith had two other watches. They they released a pilot type 20 chronograph with a silver dial, and they released the DeFi 21 uh Urban Jungle edition, which is is green. Uh we'll link both of them up in the show notes. I think they're more sort of just like basic kind of like color variations. Um, but uh yeah, you can read all about them over over on the site. So check the show notes if you're if you're interested in that. Um let's talk Bulgari and Hublow. Uh let's do Bulgari first. Um Jack, I kinda I kinda wanna throw this open to you from from your perspective. I think I know what you're gonna say, but from your perspective, what is the standout bulgari piece? Um it doesn't have to be the most expensive, it doesn't have to be the biggest, it doesn't have to be the most commercial. Whatever for you, if people are only gonna know about one Bulgari watch from this week, what do you think it has to be? I mean uh |
| Jack Forster | well it's really it's it's ridiculous. Uh my favorite Bulgary watch from this week is uh a limited edition uh ladies ladies watch, quote unquote, watch for the female client, quote unquote, which uh has a dial uh composed of uh peacock feather marketry. So it's the uh it's the diva's dream peacock diski. Um and uh I really just fell in love with this thing. It's uh the feather mar feather marketry is this like really weird, bizarre uh craft that uh I I honestly don't understand why i it even still exists anymore, but it can when it's done properly really produce beautiful things. And uh you know like it's I think it's a ninety thousand dollar watch. I I would have to look the price back up again. But uh it's just unbelievably beautiful and I if I had the scratch, uh, I would buy it just to keep it around. Yeah. Now, it's far from the most commercially important piece that Bulgaria's done, and uh they did some wonder, wonderful stuff uh with Octo. You know, again, the Octophinesimo S chronograph GMT I think is it's it's just a crazy nice watch. The Octofinissimo S, uh the one with the silver dial, might be the nicest Octofinissimo ever. Um I thought the dial was amazing. Um you know but I,'m a kind of a sucker for the high-end. And I just thought this thing was I just thought this thing was |
| Stephen Pulvirent | breathtakingly beautiful. Yeah, I was I want to jump in. It is really beautiful. I totally agree, James. And and sorry to cut you off. I I I there's two things I want to get in quickly before we get too far away from them. And and one is Jack, I think you nailed it with Bulgary. Bulgary fucking kills it at the high end. Like if you want to see what happens when you take some really creative people, give them RD budgets, give them access to incredible artisans, great archives, great history, like, and kind of say, there are clients here who are going to buy whatever you make. As long as it's good, someone's gonna buy it. So go for it. Like shoot for the moon. I I think Bulgari is one of the most interesting watch brands out there. And it's it's not all this watch has 400 complications or this watch is completely Pave diamond covered, which they do and they do really well. Um but I I I think there's you know, there's the the disky um divas dream that you mentioned, the the Divas Dream Peacock Disky. But there's two others as well, right? There's the Divas Dream Peacock Turbillon Lumiere. Yeah, there's the there's a there's the Turbine Lumiere and the and the Peacock Dream. And like what a great trilogy is. Yeah, and I I think the thing that's interesting to me about all three of them is they're all high-end and they're all high-end in different ways. And they all combine like traditional watchmaking and bulgaries, like kind of crazy creative jewelry side. Like, you know, the Turbillon Lumier is, as you would expect, a a f a turbion. You know, the the peacock disky uses this uh strange movement that uses discs instead of hands to tell the time. So the dial actually moves and that's how you you mark the passage of time. And then you've got, you know, I would say the the simplest would be the peacock diamonds. But even there, the way the bracelet's constructed is is based on old serpenti bracelets, you know? So like these are all traditional elements of at least watchmaking as Bulgari approaches it, reinterpreted with this extra layer on top, and then this sort of like devil may care, like just go for it. Just make the best damn thing you can make. Uh I don't know. They always put a smile on my face. I really like them. Um they're not watches I would I I would buy. They're not watches that I think my wife would particularly enjoy wearing. But like if I ever saw one in the wild, I would want to buy that person a drink and and find out everything about them. You don't think your wife would like a DSC? I mean maybe. I mean I honestly I might wear that. But you know, that's a separate thing. Because you're you're out ninety thousand if she |
| James Stacey | does. Sixty sixty eight. Oh. I double checked for us while we were chatting. Sixty eight grand, fifty units of the disc y I I can't afford not to the thing that stands out for me looking at these three watches is like Steven said, they're not really three watches that I would have any personal interest in, but they really exemplify an area of bulgary which like Stephen said, is willing to swing for the fences and then they just whatever they uh they hit, they make it look so easy. Yeah. Think of all the brands that try to go way out of left field with some bonkers method for using the feathers from a peacock to be built into a new type of enamel or whatever it is. Mark it, you know, you know, two paragraphs at a press release of that kind of text. But like the end result is actually something quite compelling, even if it's not something that I I would w one wear or two aspire to own. It's just that they it's you know, they're doing it. Remind me a little bit of JLC, right? When JLC goes, they go so hard and they only do ten out of ten. Yeah. Right? The two always like the execution matches the bravery from their position. And and I kudos. I think these are um watches I've not seen before. It's fun |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It's funny you mentioned JLC. Like I I had not thought of them, but that that seems fitting. But the the other two brands that come to mind here are brands that I think are often associated with Bulgary, and so it's not entirely surprising. Like Cartier and Hermes are two brands that come to mind as also being able to do this kind of thing, you know? When Hermes says we're gonna make a bunch of like weird double moon phase watches where like there's a Pegasus in the moon and the dial's made of meteorite and it,'s a custom movement, and it's a 10-piece limited edition. Like they go so so over the top with it, and yet the product is so elegant and easy to understand and enjoyable. Um and I think the the sense of delight that you get from these products reminds me of the sense of delight you get from something when Cartier really, really wins, you know? Those um uh watches with the kind of like cascading beads or diamonds, uh that reveal the panther face. Like those sorts of things um seem to me to sit in the same sort of echelon as as these new bulgari pieces. Yeah |
| Jack Forster | good point. I I I I think James made a great point. Like uh you know, at their best, uh, you know, I mean Bulgary makes it look easy and it's not easy. But at their best, uh, you know, those those brands that you mentioned, Stephen, um, you know, they all make it look effortless and it's definitely not effortless. |
| James Stacey | True. No, because there's so many so many brands get it wrong. They make something that costs a fortune and isn't special or doesn't doesn't really demand that you offer it any attention. And then you you know you have the other side of it which is where you have uh brands that won't that won't make that last effort to differentiate themselves and then I think that's what's required especially when you're when it's X watch week in this case LVMH. But like if you if there's gonna be a a moment where everybody sits down, everybody's figuratively, but everybody in our industry sits down and listens to one screen, you might as well have something like this. Cause they're doing just fine with the octo at at kind of the other end of their of their you know, the the the the the delta between the two. But I I I think it's interesting that they're continuing on with uh with with some you know genuinely kind of avant garde considerations towards watchmaking, especially especially at an aesthetic level. Yeah. And it could be some of that opinion comes from me just not knowing that all that much about uh the |
| Stephen Pulvirent | No, I I I think you're right. And I think you know that's kind of an interesting way to to pivot over to talking about the Octos, which Jack mentioned a little bit already. And the two, the two that we got are there's a new Octofenesimo S, which is the steel version uh with a silvered dial, uh, and then there's the Octofinesimo S chronograph GMT, which is the same uh steel treatment for the case and bracelet, uh but it has this sort of like deep blue brushed dial uh with contrasting white subregisters. It's it's super cool looking. It's like kind of like racing like 70s racing vibe uh to it. Um I don't know. I I really think these are both cool and Jack to your to your point I think aesthetically I do think the the new S with the silver dial is maybe the most beautiful uh octofenesimo yet. I'd have to see it in the metal, but it it definitely looks like a contender. Um I don't know. Part of me feels like these watches need to be titanium. I don't know. Part of me feels like that's like baked into their DNA is that they're like not another steel sport watch. Like they're thin, they're light, they're matte, like they kind of fly in the face of those classic Genta designs in a certain way, and that's always been part of why I love them. Uh they're some of my favorite modern watches, honestly. Um does that bug you guys at all? Does it not? Am I just being like persnickety here? I I don't know |
| Jack Forster | . This has this has definitely been a half decade of uh steel luxury watches. And I think that look, I think that Bulgari definitely knows what the market is asking for. I don't think that there's any confusion on their part about offering new versions of the octofenissimo in steel and in in in steel cases and in steel bracelets that really sort of celebrate steel. And if you go back and look at Octofenissimo watches, you know, sort of prior to this year, it was uh it was really all about was about exotic and unusual materials, it was it was about matte finish. It really wasn't about buying into the whole um you know steel steel luxury watch thing. So I think the question that every I I think a useful question to ask when you're looking at something like um you know the new octophinus MOS, which I think is a is is a really beautiful watch. I think a great question to ask is always like what would I think of this watch if I didn't know that there was a fad you know for steel watches like it's useful to to look at things in context but, it's also sometimes useful to look at to take things out of context and just say to yourself, like, what do I think of this thing as a thing in itself? And I think these are uh I think these are really successful watches. I think they do a great job of uh celebrating the steel appeal. Uh James, I think you uh kind of like you know murdered it with the uh you know with the deck on your coverage. Oh it was your deck. |
| James Stacey | Um I know didn't I didn't write that. That's yours. I had a much I had a much faster nonsensical deck in there originally |
| Jack Forster | . We should probably uh you know at some point just sort of like publish a list of the variations that the decks went through. But I'm like really curious what you guys think. Because you you know you watch the space as as closely as I do, maybe more. I mean, um, you know, there's an unusual surreal appeal to steel. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. There definitely is sorry James you you go ahead no please you're good um yeah I th I think you're right Jack and I I I wonder you know and, James, maybe maybe you can chime in here, like I wonder to what extent this is just variations on a theme and it's like, all right, what can we do this year? We can do it in steel, it'll be more water resistant, you know, blah, blah blah and it's like gives us new aesthetic possibilities, sure. Uh and to what extent this is this is meant to intentionally put the octofonissimo in dialogue with the Royal Oak, the Nautilus, whatever, whatever, you know |
| James Stacey | ? Uh I in my mind the the you know the second option there would have to be on at least a dream on on the wishboard of making any watch in steel, any sports watch in steel as you hope that it'll be the next Nautilus or at least be in that vein. Right? Um for me, I just I think it's steel's inevitable. It is the normal metal for a watch to come in. I think and I think it I think actually if you look at the way that they've done this new S with the silver dial, my brain really wants to say slivered, um, with the silver dial, and then with the new uh chronograph GMT with the blue dial, I think this actually kind of helps my my grander point, which is you know when they started the Octos format, they really went for um you know, watch making textures over like a super industrial platform. And I think as they've moved in that world, they found a few blank spots and that's what they're filling in now. Yeah. So now we have the 40 millimeter with a the bezel's gotta be my favorite part that's a similar to the bezel on my favorite modern uh pseudo modern Rolex, the Explorer 2, which has a a radially brushed uh bezel. It's it's a it's a pain to try and get scratches out of. So heads up on that. But I think it's fascinating to see that they they really maintained the like really raw kind of live, almost raw finish that you get for some from from these in the steel with the silver dial, but then we see almost the in some ways the biggest leap that the Octos made with the new chronograph. It now has a very conventional sports watch dial with big text, color, big markers, vaguely diver-e in its proportions, which I think is such a weird thing to see from that watch. You know, may maybe I'm maybe I think they I would have guessed they would have gone this route with the forty millimeter with the sub sub the subseconds versus the chronograph with the GMT. Uh personally for me, I think the design is vastly more successful the more minimal it is. So this silvered one, the original Chrono GMT, which was uh millimeter smaller, not quite a mil a full millimeter thinner, but much less water resistant, um, but had that gray dial with the skeletonized accents, you know, no loom, no embellishment, just the bare minimum you needed to make a fairly legible sports watch. And I think now we're seeing them expand into what's just generally considered more conventional for sports watch design. Yeah. I I agree with that. I think they've proven they have something good and now they're gonna see how many pieces, you know, how many versions they can make of it |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. That'll make sense. Um I want to make sure we we quickly touch on one thing we haven't touched on yet, which is is the most complicated watch that Bulgari uh revealed this week. There's actually two watches that we haven't talked about yet. Uh one is a new Serpenti, uh the Serpenti Spiga. Um it's a new sort of variation on the basic serpente, different style bracelet to your classic tubo gas. Um, people should again we'll link it up. You should go check it out. I actually love it, I think it's super cool. Um, but I want to make sure we give Jack a second to tell us about uh this new Octo Roma carrion turbion with Westminster chimes. Uh this is a very complicated watch that has a super mean look to it. It's all black. It's got like a black the dial is almost like a black, uh like a grate almost. It's got these like sort of like vertical perforations in it. This big turbion at the bottom. Um I don't know. To me, it looks it looks like a really aggressive watch to me, Jack |
| Jack Forster | . I mean uh yeah, it's definitely mad at you for being an inadequate human being who doesn't understand it. Perfect. That |
| James Stacey | 's what I need in my life. Does it remind you of uh does it remind you of uh Girard Pergo Constant Force? Like in a good way? Just that very industrial but still complicated sort of look. Interest |
| Jack Forster | ing Yeah, I mean I can I I can sort of see the connection from uh you know from a style standpoint, but oh man, uh the G P constant uh escapement that's a watch I have a lot of feelings about. That's such a th such a thing. And I and I probably shouldn't, you know, like bring them into this conversation because you know, you know, th this pr this particular watch, it's one of those um it's one of those watches that brings together some very, very different worlds. So there's this, you know, very sort of like, I'm gonna use the word postmodern, even though I'm pretty sure I don't know what that means at this point. Um, but it feels like a very a combination of very postmodern design cues, very minimalist design cues, um with some really, really traditional watchmaking. And that kind of thing can it can work or it can't. And I feel like they've made it work here. It's also um I got the case dimensions back from Bulgary earlier today. It's surprisingly uh flat watch for what it is. And you know the combination of this particular combination, uh a minute repeater that uh rings on the chimes of Westminster w Westminster with a turbulence. I mean that's that's an unusual thing, you know, in and of itself. And I I I I'd love to see this one in person because I don't know that I have that I don't know that I can say anything about it you know until I've actually seen it. You know, for something like this, so so much of it is like how do you feel when you see it for the first time? What's it like to put it on your wrist? It's gonna be like it's definitely gonna be lighter than you thought. It's definitely gonna be thinner than you thought. It's probably gonna sound better than you thought it could. And then, you know, you think to yourself, okay, like making any minute repeater the chimes, you know, on the chimes of Westminster, that's like a gigantic challenge. But like the thing about repeaters is you cannot evaluate them really until you've actually held one in your hands and heard what it sounds like, which is both the wonderful thing and the the challenging thing about minute repeaters. Like most of the time, we can write about watches from a press release and from press images, and we can get a decent approximation of what the watch is going to be like if you if we've been doing it for long enough. But but chiming watches are like, okay, you know, are you going to review the restaurant from the menu or are you gonna go to the restaurant and actually eat the food and taste it, you know, and and see what it's like. Um and repeaters are watches you have to taste, so to speak |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? That makes sense. Um Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I mean, honestly, Jack, that is that is more than enough for now. And, you know, I'm sure we'll get a chance to see this up close soon enough and and we'll have a lot more. Um I would say also if this watch interests you at all, uh again, link will be in the show notes. Uh go check the story out. Uh, this is one of those pieces that like I learned way more from Jack's story than I did from the press release. So uh I would same highly, highly, highly recommend you go check that out if you want to understand this watch at all. Um |
| James Stacey | yeah, I'd I'd agree that a follow up is definitely in order to get us get us some audio. Yeah. I want to hear it I wanna hear the dance.. No question Make a ring make a ringtone out of it. Ooh |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, man, where were James, where were you gotta be copyrighted, right? Where were you making minute repeater ringtones for feature phones circle like two thousand five yeah yeah I should have for for the watch for for very watch internet would not have been very gone but not forgotten all right so the last brand we gotta talk about uh before we wrap things up is Hublow. Um I don't know. Hublow is one of those brands like there was definitely a period where I was I was pretty off of Hublow. I was not not a fan myself. Um and now I don't know if it's just being around it for so long or the desire to find something new or maybe I've found my inner Hublow enthusiast. But uh I don't know. I'm always excited to see what Hublelow comes out with, and I actually, think they came out with some some really cool things this week. Uh maybe not anything I'm like rushing out to buy, but some stuff I was definitely interested in. Um I mean let's just dive into the big piece off off the top. I mean I mentioned earlier, we got basically two important new movements uh out of out of the releases today. Uh, one being the new El Primero, which I guess actually was announced last week, but it was part of today's thing. Uh, and then the other is a new uh flying turbine movement uh with a micro rotor on the front uh from Hublow, uh presented, of course, in an orange sapphire case uh with a matching translucent orange rubber strap. James, do you have a good nickname for this watch yet |
| James Stacey | ? Uh Tangerine Fever Dream, I think. It's in the first sentence of the uh of the of the post I wrote. I think you know I I've been I've been a fan of Hubo for a long time. I don't always understand why they do things, but I I'm usually pretty thrilled that they do it none nonetheless. Uh and this is a uh I I'll use the term of the almost egregiously expensive wise like 160 grand or something like that. They're only making um a few of them. But it is, you know, that it's the only time that Hublos aware of anyways. Yeah. And uh fifty pieces, much like the uh the the bull grow we spoke of, but the um the it it you know it is it is at least to Huba's reckoning the only time that orange translucent sapphire has been done, uh which is cool and I think it looks good. But I think what what what I like about it is just the level of cohesion in what is a watch that if you were simply to you know list out its features on a bull on a whiteboard, there'd be no cohesion whatsoever. So this is a uh uh a mostly transparent, sapphire bridged, uh automatic uh micro rotor equipped uh turbion watch. Uh the turbion is a one minute turbion. So I guess in some metric it it forms your running seconds, although there's no indication on it. So it it is just a time, simple time only sort of thing. But then the cool thing is where the brand would normally be, and this is where like the w when you charge this much for a watch, you can just do cool things kind of on demand. And and the cool thing that they've done here is they've they've taken the micro rotor, which of course is a smaller winding mass to wind the uh the watch to power the watch, uh and they flipped it so that the rotor is on the dial side so you can see it move around and when a watch with a turbulent you're mostly you're absolutely just buying that for the uh the animation of the turbine itself, and to have the rotor, which also then becomes the signature. It says Hublow. Uh I I think all told, one, I really like gray and orange together in anything. And they did a really nice job just kind of balancing the parts of the movement that can be seen and and the fact that it you know when you get a sometimes you see skeletonized watches, and I would actually say Hublow does this too, where it's skeletonized, but it seems to have been skeletonized without any purpose. Yeah. So you can see I guess you're seeing more, maybe you're seeing less. I'm not sure. It depends on your uh philosophy of on skeletonization. But often it doesn't feel like what they what was left there they intended to for you to see it. Right. Um whereas with this watch, uh the the brand that always comes to my mind for for skeletonizing things to the point where they make you want to look at it is Armin Strom. And it's like a brand thing. The guy that the dude that founded the brand really likes skeletonized watches. But with this one, I I I just really like the way that they did kind of a mix of matte and brushed finishing on the movement that makes makes it seem like they want you to look at the movement. They didn't just skeletonize it because it meant they could add a zero somewhere along the line. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. I totally agree um with basically everything you've said, so I'm not gonna I'm gonna rehash too much there. Uh I wonder if the three of us placed an order for three of these. Do you think they'd make us custom rotors that said Jack, James and Steven on them? I'm just throwing it out there guys. I'm just saying I think we could get team watches and I'm not opposed to it. And I'm certainly not opposed to Would you want your name? Uh you know what? On on literally nothing else like I don't monogram anything like I don't have my initials on a shirt I like you know I don't get my like when I get stuff made I don't even have my initials put on like the insides of pockets and stuff I just like it's not a thing I need with an orange, a translucent orange sapphire Hublow flying turbine, skeletonized Hublow flying turbion. Sure, I want my name right on the front of it. Y |
| James Stacey | es. I like the idea this this I like this fiction that you've created where it's almost like when you used to buy an iPod and you could get a laser inscription on the back. Yeah. Whether it was your name or you know, send help stuck in iPod factory, whatever funny thing you could think of at the time. Uh some of that would be kind of also fun to see on on |
| Jack Forster | I would personally request a uh holographic portrait of yours truly uh etched onto the back. Okay |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Uh maybe right on the front. I mean we can get this to Ricardo. So I I think uh and that's Ricardo Guadalupe, the the president of Hublo, the CEO of Hublow. Uh I think we can get this to Ricardo. I think I think this is a fruitful thing for us to pursue. So uh loyal listeners, stay tuned. More on the uh Hodinky Radio Limited Edition Jack James and Stevie and Flying Turbion Trio uh very very soon, hopefully. Um while we're talking about absurd things that I want to buy, I am gonna call a tiny bit of bullshit on Hublow. Not really, but mostly just because I'm I'm annoyed. I I I there was a little bit of a bait and switch in the press release. Uh when I got the press kit from Hublow uh at the end of last week, I saw that there was a watch called the Spirit of Big Bang 39mm beige. And I was like, oh a 39mm beige Hublow? That's right in my wheelhouse. Like I'm so into that. I then opened the images to find out that it's the Tonno shaped, which I should have known from Spirit of Big Bang. I wasn't paying attention. Uh it also has a bunch of rose gold on it. Uh it also has a bunch of diamonds on it. And it has a sort of super shiny, sort of beige, much more pink crocodile strap. Uh so I just want to say like Hublo, I am impressed that you made a 39mm beige watch and somehow managed to make it not something I would want. Uh is is almost like a feat of creative genius. Uh it's not my favorite watch in the collection. It's not terrible, but it's not my favorite watch in the collection. But it is the exact opposite of what I was expecting when I opened the images. So uh I have now voiced my personal frustration uh as I'm want to do on this show Exactly. I want I want all neutrals. Just small watches, warm neutrals. Mm-hmm. They'll catch up soon, I'm sure. Doesn't really feel like a beige watch to me. Yeah, it's much more pink and gold. It's a whole thing. But I got all excited in the Hodinky slack when I saw this coming It was a whole thing. Um The smaller watch that that I do think is really successful uh is the new uh classic fusion or Linsky models, which are smaller. They're 40 millimeter and they're actually time only. They're not even time and date, which is cool. I'm not a huge Richard Rolinsky fan. Like he's not one of my favorite artists. Uh, you know, I do like sculpture. Not a huge Rolinsky fan. Um, but I weirdly think these watches work as kind of tiny sculptures. I actually like these watches more than I like either his sculptures or similar Hublows in a strange way. Uh I don't know. Did you guys have any reaction to these? I think they're attractive watches |
| James Stacey | . I mean there you have it. I don't know that's I I think that yeah that I I'd agree with Jack. I think they're good looking watches. I love that I love smaller hublos. Uh the the the aesthetic is just so successful around forty millimeters and it's so often seen at forty-five. Uh, that it's just fun to see something a bit smaller. The blue I bet is pretty wild in person. Yeah. Uh you know, especially if it has that w and it seems to from the photos, that super glossy uh or Linsky sort of feel. Yeah, like everything looks almost wet. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I'm not a I I don't know enough about art to weigh in one way or another boat or Linsky, but I understand the you know the kind I'm I'm aware of some of his pieces and I see why they would attempt to move this into a watch, art fans being art fans and and probably you know similar similar sort of interests in terms of how they might spend their money. And uh all of that makes sense to me. I I would say that if you if you look at the images in the post, it's a pretty successful port of the one aesthetic on in on top of another. So I think they did just fine |
| Jack Forster | . What I find kind of fascinating about the Orlinski Yublow watches is that if you look at Orlinsky's work, they're basically uh physical 3D vertex models of like super aggressive animals in super aggressive postures. And with the watches, the uh you know the basic aesthetic has been abstracted away from that. So you don't you don't get any of the sort of like menacing physical um you know aggressiveness of Orlinsky's work. Like his sculptures are really all about the tension between these you know sort of purified geometric forms and the sort of you know like muscular aggression of the animals uh that are being modeled. And the Orlinsky watches are I I I mean I think they're beautiful. I think they're really, really beautiful. Um but but the it's the it's the aesthetic abstracted away from um you know the the sort of roots and and the uh aggressiveness of the animals that he models. Ye |
| James Stacey | ah. I totally agree, Jack. I also like that they it i I think it's fun that the end result is legible. Can't always be said for watches that pull pretty hard on the art world. That's very true. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | That's for that's what I think. Um Alright, well there's there's two other big cublo releases. We don't have to go super in depth, but I I think it's interesting maybe to talk about them in the context of of the whole collection, which is uh the MP eleven, the Big Bang MP eleven is now available in Magic Gold, which is a proprietary Hubelow alloy. And then the spirit of Big Bang now has a five-day turbion in what they're calling carbon white. So it is carbon case, but meant to have a slightly lighter color, like there's more gray and less black. Uh, and then they pair it with a white rubber strap to bring the brightness out. Skeletonized movement, it's again like kind of a crazy Hublow flexing, it's it's mechanical uh complexity muscles. But um I think you know, kind of like currently on on hodinky.com, if you look at our our package for all of the new watches from LVMH watchweek, sitting side by side by side are the orange sapphire turbion, the magic gold MP eleven, and this carbon white spirit of Big Bang. And you know, Hubelow, I think often from from, you know, the hodinky set of watch enthusiasts often gets a bad rap as being commercial, of being kind of like pop culture-y, of copying, you know, of not not copying, of taking elements of designs from from others, kind of mashing things up. And I think what Hublot doesn't get enough appreciation for from that set is their materials innovation. And I'm I'm kind of hard pressed to think of a single watch brand that is doing more in terms of material science than Hublow. There's new ceramics, new golds, new carbons, new sapphires, new case shapes, new colors. Like I every time I I've've seen a bit of Hueblo news over the last couple of years, there's like a scientific uh side of that. You know, like there's a research and development angle on the new watch. Uh and sure, like when you start talking about like aluminum millennial pink chronographs, sure everybody pays attention to the fact that it's millennial pink and that it's marketed in a really like goofy way. Uh but like what nobody's paying attention to is like it's a new it's a new color treatment for that metal or whatever. You know, I'm not a hundred percent sure in that case, but like in the case of the orange sapphire turbine, like yeah, it's a big clear orange watch, but like it's not one that's easy to make |
| James Stacey | yeah for sure. I mean that right up there with uh Richard Mill, right up there in my mind with Omega. Yeah. Just in that they have this this this like proven. Obviously their their watches cost a lot more than a lot of what Omega makes, and that's why you start to see things like I would say as much as this carbon watch, uh the this carbon big bang is is an interesting thing, more and more they are getting known for their s sapphire cases. There aren't a lot of other people willing to deal with the complexities of making a sapphire case. But but in the terms of this one, the the only thing that I see when I look at is obviously it's it's it's from the same genre, the same corner of the watch world as a lot of the Richard Mill stuff. Um and and and I just the my my the first thing I thought I thought and then the more I look at it, the more I think it this watch would have looked i I think it looks great, super cool. I think that case finish probably hopefully looks as this cool in person as it does in images. The watch itself would have looked much better on a dark strap versus this white. Yeah. With uh with a black accent. Like if that had just been a gray rubber strap, I think immediately the watch would have felt a little bit more cohesive. Yeah. Um but I I think it's a cool thing. I think the brand makes a lot of really cool things. I still I still really such an insane sentence, but it's one that I really like being able to say. I still like that they they make a Ferrari watch that I actually like. Most most watches, most like high end watches that Ferraris, you know, or that brands have worked with Ferrari to put the Ferrari nameplate on, that's not been a good thing. It hasn't always been a great thing for Ferrar or for Hublow. Wasn't a great thing for Panorai that we could go into that more detail at some point and previous to that was Girard Perigo and they had some cool things, but nothing that was like a a big takeoff, but like the current Ferrari fusion is I think a pretty uh a pretty interesting and unique watch. Yeah, I totally agree |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Uh all right guys, I think that's probably gonna do it for new watch intros. Um I mean to close things up like, do you have any just, you know, kind of big takeaways? Like I would say maybe maybe for each of us, like what is your big takeaway from uh LVMH Watch Week 2021? What's the thing that's in the back of your mind now as we look ahead to the rest of the year |
| Jack Forster | ? I think that uh, you know, I don't have any kind of um you know, macro observations to make at all. Uh I do have one small personal wish, which is I would love to have a a bulgury uh diva's dream uh peacock uh disky watch just to sort of keep it around the house I would take it out and look at it maybe once a week and feel less unhappy |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I mean less unhappy is the goal for sure. That |
| James Stacey | 's why we're all doing this jack. Yeah, yeah. Uh for my part I I would say that looking at this, and this is of course the w this now sets the stage, kind of puts the bar in place for twenty twenty one watch announcements. Uh I I hope that everybody I hope that everybody who's launching whole collections, you know, more than three or four SKUs over the course of the year, especially when we get into the the stuff that's gonna be on Basel World timing. I I hope that everyone did their homework as well as uh Bulgari did because clearly they took the year where they couldn't be focusing on everything else that that you normally do and and they really they they brought some compelling product and it's honestly it's just not what I expected. Um I d I didn't expect it uh the the spread from from the three brands that we've mentioned I didn't expect them to be quite quite what we got. So that's uh I think that's a good sign for the year |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Um I think I think that's very true. For me, I think the takeaway is that, you know, watch watch brands tend to work on long product cycles, right? Like when you see something come out, it's not something that was decided six months ago or a year ago. It's usually something that the idea started three years ago, five years ago. However, uh last year forced everyone to kind of adjust. And I think what we're gonna see in twenty twenty one is going to be much more responsive to the moment we're living in than watch releases typically are. I think it it gave everyone permission to maybe kind of like shift and alter things. And it looks like from the three brands we've seen that everybody's handling it in their own way, right? Uh, Hublow chose to focus to focus really tightly on materials and on doing interesting things on that side. Uh Bulgari decided to take, you know, on one hand existing models and give them a new personality in steel, and on the other hand, go back into their kind of history as this like high jewelry maker and apply that to watchmaking. And then Zenith uh came out with, you know, what what I would assume is is going to be a major flagship watch for them. Like that, that is going to be a hopefully for them top seller in their catalog for for years to come. So it's interesting to see that these three brands looked at what happened over the last you know, let's say 12 months and took totally different saw totally different implications on it for them. Uh and I'm very curious to see what some of the other big players in the industry do and what they think they've learned over the last year and how that impacts uh not just those of us kind of covering the industry, but consumers. What's what's going to be out there for people to buy? What are people going to be able to get? Yeah, I think that's a great analysis, Stephen. And uh I you know, I I agree completely. Well thanks for doing this, guys. I know it's been a long day of press conferences and writing things up quickly and us having pre-production chats and getting this all done. So thank you guys for for chatting and you know if you're listening, make sure to go hit up the site, uh go to hodinky.com. You'll easily be able to find this. We'll have a link in the show notes uh once the post is live and let us know what you think about these watches. We we'd really love to start a conversation, see if there are things we missed, things uh that you'd like to learn more about so that as we get these watches in uh to shoot and to cover more in depth. Uh hopefully we can respond to to what you're looking for. So hit us up, you know where to find all of us, hodinky.com, check out the comments. And uh yeah, thanks for joining us guys. A pleas |
| Jack Forster | ure. Great to be on the show. Thanks for having us, Stephen. |