2020 Year In Review¶
Published on Mon, 28 Dec 2020 11:00:00 +0000
Favorite watches, bold predictions, and a whole lot of change.
Synopsis¶
In this end-of-year episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent leads two comprehensive discussions about 2020 in watches. The first segment features Stephen, James Stacey, and Danny Milton reviewing their favorite watch releases month-by-month throughout 2020. Despite the challenging year, they discover an impressive array of releases, from the Omega Speedmaster Caliber 321 and Royal Oak perpetual calendars in January, to the Tudor Black Bay 58 Navy Blue in July, and the collaborative Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Mil-Spec in December. Each host picks their ultimate watch of the year, with choices ranging from the Zenith Chronomaster Revival Shadow to rare pieces from independent makers.
The second segment zooms out to examine the seismic shifts in the watch industry's infrastructure. Stephen sits down with Jack Forster, John Reardon (Danny), and Cole Pennington to discuss the collapse and transformation of traditional trade shows. They trace the timeline from LVMH's departure from Baselworld to create their own event in Dubai, through Baselworld's cancellation and subsequent rebranding as "HourUniverse," to SIHH's transformation into the digital "Watches and Wonders." The group reflects nostalgically on the irreplaceable aspects of in-person shows—the team building, spontaneous encounters, and hands-on experience with watches—while acknowledging that the old model may never return.
The conversation explores both the practical challenges of covering watches virtually (from Zoom meetings with low-resolution cameras to elaborate COVID protocols for hands-on time) and the broader industry fragmentation as major brands splinter into separate events. Despite the difficulties, the group finds reasons for optimism, noting that digital accessibility could make the industry more inclusive and hoping that the disruption might ultimately bring competing brands together toward common goals. They conclude that while they miss the camaraderie and efficiency of traditional shows, the industry must adapt to meet 21st-century expectations, with the understanding that a fragmented, confusing release calendar serves neither brands nor consumers well.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Stephen Pulvirent | Worldwide, the the like market penetration of luxury wristwatches is still pretty small. Like there's nothing but room for growth here. And if this is gonna survive into the 21st century in a in a real meaningful way, this can't be a brand A versus brand B every minute of everyday situation. Like 21st century consumers expect more than that and are too smart for that. And uh I'm hoping the industry can kind of like pull together and find a new a new way forward for everybody that is better for everyone Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. 2020. Uh it's uh it's been a doozy of a year to say the least and it feels really weird to say that this year's been good in any meaningful way, but to wrap things up for 2020, we decided to try to find the bright spots and to celebrate them a little bit. So with that in mind, we've got two segments for you this week. The first is James, Danny, and me picking our favorite watches of the year. And rather than go with the usual best chronograph, best dress watch categories, we've decided to break 2020 down month by month, selecting our favorite drops from each. Considering there was a period of time in March and April where we genuinely didn't know if we get any new watches at all this year, the final crop is pretty outstanding. At the end, we'll each crown our favorite watch of the year overall, so you'll definitely want to stick around for that. After that conversation, we're gonna zoom out a little bit and I sit down with Jack, John, and Cole to get a macro look at what the lasting effects of 2020 will be on the watch world, specifically with things like the trade shows and product releases. Uh, the way that the watch industry has functioned for about a hundred years now was completely disrupted, and it was really great to get some insights from these guys like Jack and John, who have been around a long time, and Cole, who's coming to this a little bit fresh, to see maybe what worked, what didn't work, and what we're gonna see in the future. So we're gonna be taking off the first week in January, so this extra long episode is gonna have to hold you over till then, but I want to personally wish everyone of you listening a happy new year and tell you I can't wait to show you what we've got in store for you on Hodinki Radio in 2021. It's gonna be pretty major. So without further ado, for the last time in 2020, let's do this. This week's episode is presented by Grand Seiko and the GS9 Club USA Chapter, the brand's exclusive community for avid Grand Seiko collectors. Stay tuned later in the show for details or visit Grand Seiko GS9club.com for more. Hey guys, how you doing |
| Danny Milton | ? Doing well. The snow is coming. Yeah, no complaints. We got a bit here. Yeah, you guys you guys got blizzard uh blizzard situation, don't you? I'm a little bit further north. We have a little bit of snow from last night but it I don't think there's a blizzard coming for us just yet. I don't really check the weather anymore because I don't go outside so I I live in a a post weather lifestyle |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Like a true Canadian, right, James? Yeah, sure. I'm not gonna spin my computer around and show you the palm tree out the window right now, but uh you can you can send me mean DMs afterwards. Uh all right. We're closing out 2020. I think the three of us all agree uh this year felt like twelve years um minimum. So uh I thought instead of doing like a normal year in review, like favorite chronograph of the year, favorite dress watch of the year, whatever. Um, since each month of this year felt like its own year, I thought we would just go month by month and kind of break the year down in watches. Does that uh that work for you guys? Love |
| Danny Milton | it. Yeah, for sure. It was I mean uh not a great year, all things told, but really not a bad year for watches |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I totally agree. I like I kind of forgot how good a year it was for watches, quietly. I think because everything felt so spaced out, like when I was prepping for this, there was stuff that came out in January, February that if you had asked me, I would have told you came out in like 2018. There were some crazy months too, like months that felt a lot longer than |
| Danny Milton | other months. Whereas like more watches than I could have imagined were released in those singular months. Freaking April. April. Yeah, exactly. April. April. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. Yeah. April was uh April was a marathon. Figured out in April. That was also thinking about what else was going on in the world in April, and we were like trying to sort out new watch stories. Uh I it all kind of feels like a fever dream at this point to me, if I'm being honest. Yeah, for sure. Thankfully, we have a record. Exactly. Uh all right, let's let's jump into this because we got 12 months. It's a lot of watches to get through. Um I figure basically what we'll do is is we each prepped kind of our own lists. I figure we'll share it month by month. We can debate it, bring up any honorable mentions, whatever, move on, and then at the end, I'm going to ask each of you to crown your kind of like your watches If there was one watch you wanted on your wrist uh you know when the clock strikes midnight on the thirty first, like let's let's pick those watches. Let's uh let's jump in here. January twenty twenty, approximately seven years ago. Uh I'll I'll go first right off the bat here. Uh this one was kind of a no brainer for me, despite there being some good January watches. Uh I went with the caliber three twenty one Speedmaster from Omega. Um okay. I mean, you drop a new 321 speedy. It's the watch everybody's wanted for decades. I I don't know. It felt like a no-brainer. James, |
| Danny Milton | what did you uh what'd you have up? Uh the the Chinese edition full titanium Royal Oak QP. Mm. Such a quiet watch that of course we haven't seen. We would I'm not sure we would have seen it even if March didn't happen and the world didn't shut down or whatever, but like just because it is a boutique edition for for a single market. But it's also a modern Royal Oak QP that's like the sportiest version they've ever made. It's full titanium, it has red accents. It's got like a dark gray uh full tapissary dial. Uh, I think this thing is crazy cool |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . That's a great choice. Honestly, I it hadn't occurred to me because I kind of like stopped at Speedmaster, but that is that is a hell of a choice |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah, I dig it. I mean, I I think I I typically enjoy my Royal Oaks in solid gold. Um but if you're gonna make the exception I think titanium's a pretty fun way to do it. Uh and yeah, I just I I think the the in the the watch itself it's like yet another thing that the Royal Oak can do that kind of flies in the face of convention. Like first putting a QP in a royal oak format is kind of a crazy thing to do in the first place, and they obviously did that and have been doing it for some time. And then to now make to take it all the way back to kind of its roots like a luxury steel watch, but we've taken it a step further by making a luxury titanium QP |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I want to get the phrase I typically like my Royal Oaks in solid gold on like a t-shirt or a hoodie. Yeah. We'll get the merch train rolling. Uh I would I would buy one gold. All the way around the coffee mug. That's what I want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| Danny Milton | What's uh what was your pick, Danny? For me, it was the Speedmaster also, Steven. It was one of those like that I didn't actually appreciate as much until I saw it in the metal. I was actually with Davey when he shot the weak on the wrist for Jack. And I got to wear it a little bit. I got to see it. Uh, and it's just so good. I mean, I can't even explain how good the bracelet is on that watch. I mean, it's just like it's silky smooth. Like, I just was holding it in my hand more than wearing it on my wrist. Um, and is like a not a notable chronograph wearer. Um that one kind of had me big time |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Yeah, I'm the same. I'm like not a chronograph guy. I've I've wanted to own a speed master for a long time and I just like can never I don't know at the end of the day like I never feel quite strongly enough to pull the trigger. This watch, I I I want this watch. Like there's no two ways about it. I was trying to figure out a way to like soft pedal that there's there's no two ways. Like I want I want this watch and I might I might get it at some point and then there's a reasonable chance that like all the other chronographs I've ever owned, I sell it after six months and I'm like, okay, learning experience, whatever, but I |
| Danny Milton | don't know. There's something about it that's kind of magnetic. Yeah, it's like really charming. Like even just like the word Omega, the word mark is a little bit different than the standard Omega Speedies, and it's just like all these little things, the little almost pat |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ina going on, the whole thing just really works. All right. Uh for January, I'm trying to think if there are any honorable mentions. I mean, Bulgarie dropped a couple new Octofinesimos, all of which are very, very nice. Not my favorite Octofinesimos, uh, which is why they didn't didn't get my vote here. Um, you know, some new cool Seiko stuff, yellow gold, LM Perpetual, like cool stuff in January, but I I don't know. I think the Speedy and the uh Royal OQP kind of sit in a tier of their own. Let's uh let's go |
| Danny Milton | Yeah, and I'm hoping I'm I might be picking something James picked. I'm just assuming. I have no, I've not seen your list, but I'm going with the uh the Seiko SLA 037. So it's the fifty-fifth anniversary. Um just like all three of those watches were cool. Um, but this one just like really stuck out to me. Uh it's pretty much the like a re edition of the 62 Moss just with like better modern materials, better movement, um a lot more pricey. Um but it's a design that I would just wear the hell out of. I mean it like you look at it and you understand why Seiko likes that design, you understand why people love that design. It's kind of like it reminds me of a submariner in a lot of ways when you look at like a quintessential dive watch, that's one of them. Um and just like as a trio of releases really cool, but I lasered in on that one. Yeah, it's a great watch for sure. Was that your pick, James? Oh no. No, no. Oh okay. I like my Sacco Divers considerably less expensive. Okay. So what's uh what was your pick? Um my yeah, mine is the the uh Brightling Avi Ref 765 1953 re edition. I I think it's one of the best watches of the year. Uh they they got the kind of bum dice roll of launching a great watch in February, probably under the assumption that it would be in all of our hands and in front of our cameras and the rest of it by April. And of course that just didn't really work out that way. They Brightling had a great year uh despite I I I don't think that they're hurting in any way. Uh and the the chronomat is probably the thing that people that sticks in people's minds from the year. Uh but for me it's absolutely this one. It's a it's a just a photocopy perfect reedition of a truly gorgeous watch. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | You know what I love about that watch? It comes in platinum. Platinum with a blue dial. Platinum blue dial on this like sort of saddle colored, like brown rust colored stitched strap. Uh that is quietly a badass watch. Like it looks like a vintage steel brightling and it's a modern platinum brightling. I would I would fuck with that. That's a pretty, pretty awesome |
| Danny Milton | watch. Yeah, no, I agree. I like all three versions. I think the steel one at eight grand ish, seventy nine hundred Swiss francs, uh is uh is a great deal considering you're getting uh cost certified hand wound movement from Brightling. They I mean I said this on another podcast recently, but they they are kind of the like depending on your scope, they're one of the biggest chronograph brands there are. Especially if you go back to a world before the prevalence of the of the Daytona, you know, the right stuff and and the Nava timer and those sorts of things. And I think this this thing and and from being another mid century design, it's just so sweet. Did |
| Stephen Pulvirent | n't Brightling invent the two button chronograph? Couldn't tell you. I think that's true. I'll have to fact check myself on this. If if I'm wrong, light me up in the comments, DM me, like give me a ton of shit. I deserve it. But like I'm pretty sure Brightling invented the two-button chronograph in the twenties. I think I've seen one of the original ones. I might be making that up, but uh either way I I agree with you. I think there it's kind of more like quietly a leader |
| Danny Milton | . It's like uh in inventing the piano necktie |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Uh all right, Stephen, what what was your favorite? Perfect. Uh I picked a watch that could not be more different from the two watches you guys picked. Uh I picked the MB and F uh LM Flying T without diamonds. Um I mean, anybody who listens to this knows that like I love MBF. It's not typically stuff I would wear at all, like, not even close. Uh, but I love it, and I really like Max and I love how creative it is. And I love that like you show people MB and F watches and it totally changes how they think about watches. Like it just blows the doors off of what a watch can be. Uh and The Flying T was originally conceived as the first MBF designed specifically for women. And with that in mind, they did what a lot of watch brands do. I totally get it. They put diamonds all over it. Um, really nice. Like I think I would actually wear it with the diamonds. It was pretty cool. Um, the full baguette set one is absolutely insane. But uh they dropped it earlier this year without diamonds with sort of a blue or black guillet dial. Uh, I love it. Like to me, this is if you're looking for like a weird dress watch, like a weird idiosyncratic dress watch, uh, this is is I think up there with the best of the best that you can get. I mean, everything from them is incredible. It's all super |
| Danny Milton | fun. It's all kind of genre-defying. And uh yeah, the flying T sick. Good point, good pick. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna then go for the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm gonna move us to March and I'm gonna go for something totally, totally different. Uh, which is my pick for March were the Grand Seiko uh 16th anniversary first re-editions. Um, you know, James and I were actually talking about this offline or in Slack yesterday as recently as yesterday. Uh Grand Seiko, the first, the original, original Grand Seiko, beautiful, incredible design. Grand Seiko has very appropriately reissued it. However, they've done it like a million times. There's like, you know, five or six different versions of this re-edition in different sizes, different metals, different dials, but they've they've always been limited. Uh, and finally, Grand Seiko just said, like, you know what? Screw that, we're just gonna put them in the collection. Um, and I think the versions that they put in the collection are really, really nice. And in particular, uh, there's a version in titanium with a blue dial uh that is a very different vibe from the traditional like yellow gold sort of like parchment colored dial uh or even the like platinum on platinum ones um but I I dig it. I think it's fun. I think it's different. I think it's very Grand Seiko. And and the watch comes in at like eight thousand bucks. And I think for eight thousand dollars, if you're looking for like a dressy slash everyday watch, uh this is pretty awesome. Yeah, I agree. I almost picked that one |
| Danny Milton | . Almost. Would you what'd you pick instead? What beat it out? So I went like way opposite of that. I went with the Hamilton PSR. Um because uh it was kind of an unexpected release and also it kind of like fits everything that I'm into. So a watch that was developed after a clock that was developed for two thousand one of Space Odyssey and then ends up on the wrist of James Bond is just something I'm automatically going to be into. But then re-releasing it in a modern package, and I'm picking this the stainless steel version, not the gold-plated one. But I just love the idea of Hamilton making an LED wristwatch on bracelet that I just feel like no one's talking about. It came out, we talked about it a little bit. It was right before we left the office too. Like I think it was like maybe a day before we all went home. And that was it. It kind of just like flew away. Um, but you know, it was a really cool release and I'd like to see it in the metal again. I |
| Stephen Pulvirent | f they made this watch in solid gold, would you wear it in solid gold? Hell yeah. And I hope and and I would hope it'd be really heavy. I would just hope it was like heavier than it needed to be too. Dude, it would be a brick. This is a big watch anyway. This watch is heavy in steel, you know? I know James would wear it if it was in solid yellow gold. Oh for sure. Should we see if Hamilton will make us just have it be the Hodinky Radio edition? It's only people on the show can get it in solid gold. You say no, James, but you mean yes. Yes. I think we could get Cole on board. I think Jack might buy one. We could probably get like a solid five to ten of us in on this. Buy a bunch of forty thousand dollar digital Hamilton. Yeah, great idea. All right, James. What what do you got for us for uh for March |
| Danny Milton | ? I got the same same Seiko, but the yellow gold, the two five eight SBGW. So uh for p you know, for people I I'm uh uh the my favorite Grand Seiko ever is the original thirty one eighty. They made three or four different kind of series of those that had all kind of minute differences. And then in 2017, they made the SBGW252, which is kind of the a very faithful recreation of that at 38 millimeters. And the 258, which is the yellow gold versus the the titanium that Steven spoke of, um the the the two five eight it all they've done is essentially pulled from a few of the other tiny minuscule differences and then they put it in about a more like a 36-37 millimeter case. I think it's uh 35.8. So it's slightly smaller, and that size isn't going to make a difference. Uh uh you know we have a colleague that has a 252 who's let me wear it around the office and it's essentially a perfect dress watch uh by my measure. It's just stunningly beautiful, super wearable, and uh slightly smaller would be gr awesome for sure. Great wat |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ch. Yeah, I I agree. I mean I picked I picked the blue and titanium one mostly because it's more affordable and kind of like the it's the most new, I guess, of what they did. But uh for my money at the end of the day, I think I'm with you. I think yellow gold is is the move there. All right, so March, we all want uh gold watches. Crushed it. Uh I think for April, April was a tough one. As we mentioned at the top of the show, uh, we essentially got what should have been SIHH happened in April. Watches and wonders uh happened in April. Uh so we just got a giant dump of press releases in our inboxes, more watches to sort through than we thought possible. Um we did it. Luckily, over the course of the following like two, three months, we actually got to see some of them. It was a little weird to like have all these new products and not get to see anything, but uh I don't know. There were there were some real standouts here. I I have two one I picked as the winner, one as a very close runner up, but honestly they're pretty neck and neck. I wonder what what stood out for you guys from the the sort of virtual show |
| Danny Milton | . Well, I IWC was up there for me in some degree, and then I just left the show and traveled to Japan. Um, so not to like completely not answer your question, but I ended up going with the uh the Seiko SPB one five three. So that would be the it's not technically a willard reissue, but it just looks like a willard in some fashion. Yeah. I basically like when all those watches came out, there was it like you said, it was like sensory overload, and a lot of brands released a lot of watches, and then quietly off in the corner, we got two watches, the SPB153, SPB151. One had black dial on bracelet, one is green dial, green bezel on a rubber strap. And I picked that one just because it's an interesting green color. I love the key the shape, the shape of the case, but also it's forty two millimeters which is just like a lot more wearable and when with the way that Seiko's lugs are that ends up wearing even smaller than that I think. Um and I just like tool watches and that watch just like hit home for me, although the IWC Portuguese releases were just like right under there |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I mean that's where my head was at was was IWC. I think the new Portuguese models were really fantastic. And in particular, the new 40 millimeter automatic. Um, that's a watch I've wanted IWC to make for years. Uh, I actually said when I reviewed the time, time and date eight day a couple year uh a couple uh years ago I guess like two years ago that like this is the watch I wanted was a smaller time only Portuguese. I never thought they would do it. Uh and when they did they did an awesome job. Uh I think the blue on white dial is absolutely killer. And that is now like probably in my top five for like, you know, when friends ask, like, hey, I want to buy an everyday watch, you know, that can kind of be sporty, it can be dressy, I can jump in a pool with it, like whatever. Uh, you know, first question is always do you want something on a bracelet or something on a strap? If the answer is something on a strap, like this very quickly gets toward the top of the list for me. A good pick for su.re Yeah, I like that watch a lot |
| Danny Milton | . For my pick, I went with the uh with the other SPB release of the of the month, which is the SPB one four three. I later bought one. Uh I don't there's not a ton to say. The bummer about April is that also by picking that I can't pick the Zinn U50 or uh technically I've moved my next April pick into May as it was only off by like a day. Uh, but there was a lot of great watches. A few of my most favorite watches of the year came out in one month. Um, but I went with the SPB uh 143, you know, it's a 40.5 millimeter kind of skin diver effect um 200 meter dive watch from seiko that has a 70 hour power reserve and drove lugs this incredible steel bezel i've been obsessed with it we did a week on the wrist i it's absolutely you know it's the watch i wore most this year, I got mine months later by the time they actually started to hit the market and everything else. And uh I I I can't say enough great things about |
| Stephen Pulvirent | it. Yeah, I love that it only took us to get to April before we start cheating. Uh which which honestly I'm kinda shocked we made it |
| Danny Milton | this far. But uh Well I got the watch in question for next month, which we can move to if you want, um is uh is you know, I it I got it also in March to r or in May to review. Uh so I think it's more of a May watch. Okay. That's a very subjective way of looking at that, |
| Stephen Pulvirent | James. That's okay. I'll I'll let you cheat a little bit there. Uh we can move on to that. I I guess my last my last thing to say would be it bummed me out that I couldn't include Cartier in here. Um I think the IWC ultimately takes the cake for me. I think I've kind of flip-flopped a couple times, but like all of the new Cartier tank and Santos Dumont models are absolutely killer. Uh the new uh Privé asymmetrique, which comes either plain or skeletonized, uh, and then the new mechanical Santos Dumas models, uh they're incredible. Like it's it's Cartier doing what Cartier does best. They pulled out all the stops. All the watches have storytelling components to them with like engravings and special packaging and like they really put a lot of thought and effort into this. It wasn't simply like let's go in the archive, recreate something, and push it out the door because we know it'll sell. Um and I think that's like n nobody does that kind of like romantic uh storytelling like Cartier and these watches to me just exemplify that. So big shout out to Cartier even though I didn't ultimately uh settle on that watch. Big shout out. Big big shout out to April. Yeah. Big shout out to April. Uh what's your what's your April May watch, James? The Doxa Sub 300 Carbon. |
| Danny Milton | Ah. Okay. It's a watch that like uh I I I recently prepped a very similar like watches of twenty twenty uh story, and I realized that uh this is a watch that I have not stopped thinking about uh since it was here. It's too expensive. I can't afford it. That's it's it's that's an easy reason to get out of the market for one. Um but I I own a couple of the standard three hundreds that they're that this exact model's based off of that's like a carbon copy but in carbon. Um and and it's uh it it they're they're just the most charming watches under five say five thousand dollars or three thousand dollars or wh whatever line you want to put in the sand. I just think they are so much fun and uh and and it's so fun to wear something that that has a aesthetically no concept that uh a submariner exists. Most dive watches in the world kind of at least say, oh, well, we like the submariner, so we made this. And Dox is kind of like, well, huh? Like what's just fully doing their own thing. Um and then to make it to make to take their the the the the original sort of sixty-seven proportions of a thin case three hundred and just render that and the bezel in carbon, it the effect is wild. It's such a fun watch |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It's not like that's either. That's a super cool one. I I I agree. I think that's it it it hadn't occurred to me to pick that, but in looking through the releases, I think I probably should have known you were gonna pick that. I feel like it was it was uh a mistake on my part to not assume that. I think the I think the embargo is like the tw |
| Danny Milton | enty eighth of April. Twenty eighth to twenty nine. Maybe that's even the thirtieth. Um but I had it hands on early May. So I figured that was okay. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Okay. Uh I'm gonna pick a watch that again, I'm I'm I'm jumping in here because I think I'm picking something that's like kind of the opposite of what you picked. Uh, and that is the Royal Oak uh jumbo in platinum with diamond indexes uh made for Yoshida. Um I picked this watch for like a million different reasons. I mean, love a good jumbo, love an all-platinum royal oak, like they weigh a ton and they're amazing. The black Onyx dial with 11 diamonds for the hour markers. The only one that isn't a diamond is at three o'clock. There's a white on black date wheel, so it corresponds with the color of the dial. Um the fact that it's a limited edition you can only get in Japan. Like this what this watch sounds like something that a focus group would have designed to appeal to me. And like I feel like somewhere Francois was just like, how can we make Steven's heart hurt. Uh let's let's create this watch. Um shout out to Francois, I love you, Francois. Um but yeah, this is just like this is so good. And AP, yeah, it's flashy, yeah, it's in your face. But like AP kind of embraces that and does it in a way that is sort of self-aware and I don't know, it just like there's no other way to put this. Like this is a watch that could be like a total douchebag watch, and yet it doesn't feel that way to me at all. Um and I I love that. I don't know. It just it speaks to me. Yeah, it's not the watch, it's the wrist. Always will be, always has been |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah. I think these are cool who doesn't love a weird fun, you know, small market or not small market, but like market singleized uh uh roll oak. Yeah, I'm on board. Yeah, I think it actually like goes past douchebag. Well it's like it it's like it's almost like an elevated watch. You've like you either know that that's cool or you don't and I think that watch is awesome. That's a that's a that's a pick I didn't even think about. Cool. Danny, what's your uh what's your may pick? Mine's closer to James in the sense of like weird material, all black everything situation. So I went with the uh the Zenith Chronomaster Revival Shadow wat. Thatch just like spoke to me when I saw it. Um and it's and and I saw the Revival Liberty in the metal this year. Um so similar like same case shape, totally different case material. I mean, this is this the shadow is made from micro blasted titanium. Um and I just love the uh the strap is like um it's like a cordura effect rubber. So it's like a rubber strap. So if it's like you wouldn't expect it it looks like a t like a textile strap but it's not um so I love that watch for like a multitude of reasons one of them the I don't own any titanium case watches or any black, you know, uh black on black on black. And I think that at the size of that watch, it would look really cool. It's almost like conservative. But it also the dial design is so like vintage evocative that I just it just gets me every time. Like the El Primero, you know, cursive word mark, even the uh the numerals going around the dial just look like they were hand painted, even though I know they probably weren't. But the fact that they look like they do is cool enough for me. Um and that watch just is awesome. Um again, I'm not a chronograph wearer, but I love the size of that. I like that it's a smaller chronograph and I would I would wear the hell out of that one. I think I've said wear the hell out of like twice already, but I would. It's a really really cool watch. And if I if my um if my doxa uh cheat had been dis you know uh uh uh uh you know cancelled by Steven uh summarily, then I I would have gone with the uh the other one that they did the same same month, which was the manufacture. Yeah. Um, which is kind of a a classic a really classic take on the tricolari. So yeah. A really that watch two that watch was my runner |
| Stephen Pulvirent | up. That was what I had after after the AP was the the manufacturer edition. Um Zenith had a really good year. Yeah. Zenith had a ton of good releases. Zenith did have a really good year. I totally, totally agree. All right, let's let's go into June. James, uh all of you kick us off here. What was your what was your June watch? That'd be the Langines Her |
| Danny Milton | itage Classic Tuxedo in the two hand with the small with the small seconds. I think it's uh I think it's a a watch that has been on my list since June to have been able to have seen in person. And of course we we don't do a ton of that these days. Um but I I I think the chronograph is fantastic and gorgeous, but I think there's just drooled lugs, thirty eight point five millimeters with a tuxedo dial the only text on the dial is long jeans and the more you look at that dial the prettier it gets it's just such uh that's a lot of watch for I think list is two grand uh that's a ton of watch for two grand. A modern modern, you know, swatch derived Eda caliber with a decent with a good power reserve, like more more than you'd get from a 28 series. And uh I a beautiful dial. I love the drill blugs. I bet you, you know, it's a watch that like it's that exact sort of watch where you put it on a NATO or on like a Cordura and it's kind of super casual. But if you just flipped it over to a Cordovan or or you know, w one of one of the more low key, no stitching sort of straps from the the shop, I think you'd have uh something much dressier. Longines had a great year. And uh and and and I'm sure that you guys have some longines picks on your list, but uh these ones uh this one I really like the chronograph is just stunningly beautiful as well so I think they did a great job with these tuxedo dials are fun they're not that we don't see them that often and I love I really really love the the the you like ardently minuscule use of te |
| Stephen Pulvirent | xt. Yeah, I I totally agree. I think this watch is a killer. This this made my short list. It wasn't my final pick, but um I think I I I think for all around versatility, this is probably the the move 'cause I agree with you. This this is a watch you could buy you could buy this three straps and be set for Oh, for sure |
| Danny Milton | . I went with the Longine also, actually. Um and it was a watch that when it was introduced I didn't actually pay attention to. Um got to see it uh in the metal a couple months later. So it was the longine spirit 40mm. Um Completely the opposite of the tuxedo dial in the sense there's a ton of text and a ton of stuff on the dial, including five applied stars. But it's one of those watches when I saw it, it at its price, it feels a lot more expensive and a lot higher quality than what they're offering for at that price, which I think it's like around twenty-five hundred dollars, twenty-eight hundred dollars, somewhere in there. What you're getting is a really nice matte dial, really nicely sized case. Granted, the lugs are a little long, but still at 40 millimeters, they can get away with that. Oversized crown. So it's that sort of traditional pilot watch look um that you kind of normally see from an IWC maybe, but longine is sort of elevating it with applied numerals. Um the loom is really good. They have a lot of depth to them, so they're applied, but they're also really thick. Um and I just would have completely written this watch off if I hadn't seen it. And it just always goes back to that like try to see watches in person before you make decisions on them. Because I I don't think I ever would have thought of this watch ever again had I not seen it. And now I think about it fairly often. It was it was I I remember telling my wife, I was like, this is this is a really nice this is really nice. And and I I wore it um like for a day straight when I had it. It was it was great. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Alright, so I know I said that I almost picked the longine heritage classic tuxedo and ended up not picking it. But James, I think you convinced me. I think I'm gonna go with that watch too. I had one or two others here. I think the tag uh fragment Hoyero 2 is awesome. Um I think paddock actually did some cool stuff in June, uh, but it you know, slightly less realistic end of things. Uh but yeah, I think ultimately I think you I think you convince me. I think the the tuxedo is is the move. Swish. I think we've now renamed |
| Danny Milton | we we've renamed the month L'Anjune. at this point Long June. Long June. Can't wait for Long January |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Feb Febulange, are we just gonna make all of the uh all the months? Have fun with large. Yeah. Launch arch, yeah. All right. |
| Danny Milton | Um and with that. W |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ith the truck commercials too. Trich doesn't work. Trucktober? All right. With with that, we're moving we're moving to July. We're gonna keep this calendar flowing. Um for July, uh we kind of got a heater right out of the gate uh the morning of July 1st uh with the Tudor Black Bay 58 Navy blue. Um and I think that has to be my pick. I have one other one I'll mention in a minute, but I I think the BB 58 blue is is the move here. Uh I can't remember the last time a watch made a bigger impact on the internet than this. I think Tutor did a really smart thing getting samples out to people for the day of launch. So like, you know, that first week in July, like my entire Instagram feed was just this watch over and over and over again in different settings. Uh, and it very quickly became one of those watches that like I couldn't imagine not existing |
| Danny Milton | . It was also like the idea that Tudor Rolex had basically said we're not releasing anything this year. And all of a sudden they did. And it was a huge deal in the moment. I remember I remember seeing or hearing we had a meeting at some point where we knew that Tudor was releasing something. And that in itself was just like huge news. And then obviously when they did this, I picked it also, spoiler. Um but I like it because I think out of context, this watch is way better than it is in context. I think in context, people could say, oh, it's boring because you know the original Bacquay 58 has a little more color, a little more warmth, the red flourish on the bezel. It goes people have gone two ways about this watch, but I think it's so perfectly distilled and captures that that Tudor snowflake DNA that it it's a it's a no-brainer to exist in Tutor's lineup. It should have always been there. Um, I think it'll be a long standing sort of model in the collection, and it's just it's an awesome release. And it doesn't need to have watches don't always need to be like splashy, they don't always have to be so new. They can be the obvious pick. This just needed to happen and it did and and I I that's why I picked it. Yep, it was same same that's what I picked and for all the same. First unanimous month. Yeah. It's a killer watch, one of the best of the year for sure in the sports category. Easy. Yeah. Uh I I enjoyed, you know, I I got a chance to uh get one in for the the hands-on and and shoot the photos and stuff and I I just loved every minute of it. Felt bad having to send it back. Put that on the list of the stuff that I would have bought and didn't it's right right in there with the carbon. Uh yeah, just a sick watch. Kudos to anyone who picked one up. You've got a great daily. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Uh I I will say it overshadowed two other watches that I think we have to at least mention here. One is Omega Relaunched the Constellation, which while not my favorite uh collection in Omega's lineup, and I don't think the most interesting to like most of our readers. Yeah, I see James James is doing a big, big thumbs down move on our Zoom call right now. But uh yeah, it's not my thing, but like I think a lot of people probably buy it. And so Omega redesigning the constellation is like newsworthy. Uh and then tag redid the Carrera. So we got, you know, a new a new Black Bay 58, new entire lineup of Carreras and a new lineup of constellations. Uh and to James's second thumbs down on the Zoom call. I used the other hand. Roger Ebert. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Love that. Um yeah, I think the you know, the new Carreras are big, they're forty-four millimeters, they're thick 'cause they use the Hoyero to movement. Like, okay, they're not they're not exactly the Carrera, I would I would buy. There are certainly Carreras in the collection I would buy. Um but I think the overall redesign is is cool and it kind of breathes new life into the collection in a way that I don't think tag has done in quite a while. Like this direction of Carrera feels much more in line with what, you know, feels intuitively Tag Hoyer to me versus something like the skeletonized modular cased ones that we've seen over over the last couple years. Let's go to August, which to Danny's point, uh Rolex and Tutor told us they were not releasing anything, and then that all changed. Uh July 1st, we got a new tutor, and then in August, we got a bunch of new Rolexes, so I have a funny feeling those are going to dominate this month. But uh Danny, where where are you at? I see you nodding along. Ye |
| Danny Milton | ah, I mean it's obvious. Um it it sometimes you just can't avoid the choice. To me, it's it's the submariner, the date or no date. Um they sure they upsed it a little bit, but I think we've heard whatever that sizing means, I think it was negligible. Um what they really did was slim slim the lugs down and make the proportions the way that I think that we were used to in vintage or neo-vintage subs. And just a little less maxi. And it just looks great. I mean, it's it's that's the watch that they will always make. It's the watch that they're known for now. Um, and it looks, you know, it's funny. When I read your your article about it, Steven, you almost can't tell the difference between them. I mean it's really it's really difficult. The one thing that like is just something I can't get over, it's such a small thing. I don't like the coronet between Swiss and Maid on any of the new Rolex models. So for whatever reason, I just can't get behind it. It's a small detail, but when you own a watch, small details matter. And for some reason it's just one added it's one cornet too many for me. But otherwise great watch. I had a a second pick, which I might bring up in a minute, which is couldn't be more the opposite of Rolex, but I'll save it. All right. James, where were you at on this? OP36 in yellow, baby. Yeah, that's my pick too, man. Yeah, what a watch. I can't wait to see one. I literally cannot wait to see it in person. Yellow is such a hard color to do on cars, to do one, watches, to do on anything. And if it's even close to the the kind of deeply saturated, not too green, little bit orange, sort of yellow that they've got in the images, it'll be uh something so cool. And and I just think like this is this is for me is like an explorer with a sense of humor. It's so fun. I've heard people the yellow seems to be really taken off like people who I know that have gotten it or like really enjoy it |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Sick. Yeah. Uh I had the chance to see one for a couple hours for a shoot. Uh James, I'll send you some wrist shots after this. But uh it's it's so cool, man. Like I I mean people who know me or people who see me on video will know. I basically wear exclusively like dark blue, gray, and neutral colored clothing. Like I basically wear no color. Um I would love to walk around wearing this like screaming bright yellow watch. Uh it's awesome. It's so much fun. And James, like you said, like it it has a sense of humor, which is like not classically what we associate with Rolex, you know? Uh-huh. But I love that. I love that it's like it's a cool, fun, everyday watch that doesn't take itself too seriously. And I don't know. I I hope these are around in the collection for a long time |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah, me too. I'd I would I would love to own one someday. I think that they're uh I think they're b beautiful. I think that's just the right size for an everyday Rolex. And uh the the spread of colors is great and and don't get me wrong, I can I can see the case that anyone could make for any of those colors. It's the it's it's the yellow. Yeah. I wear a lot of blue, so it's the y |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ellow. Oh yeah. Uh all right, let's let's keep moving. Uh we're taking a little longer than than we'd planned, but uh you know, just more more for the listeners, man. Uh September. Uh we're coming out we're coming out of Tudor Rolex summer. Hot Rolex summer. Uh September |
| Danny Milton | . What are we what are we going with, James? Well, uh you know, originally we had planned to have Kara on this call and I thought I I was gonna have to snake her on this one 'cause I'm pretty sure this would have been her pick. Um but it's the the Patek Philippe uh seven two three four white gold thirty eight and a half millimeter pilots travel time. I just think I I got to spend an afternoon uh while working on a a magazine chute uh for like a hodinky magazine chute uh in LA. I got to spend an afternoon with the rose gold version. And it is just the moment you pick it up, you're like, this feels too small for what it is. I've I've, you know, I've had a uh the 55 uh 24 on wrist before the full size and the it's not it's not at all too small it takes what 10 minutes and you're like oh no this is big enough I can read it the buttons feel really good it looks incredible and now to have it in uh you know in the white metal uh with that beautiful dial. Uh I know that there's there, you know, these I think this is still in some metric a controversial watch among deep Patek people. I'm not a deep patek person at all. I'm not a patek person in any way, shape or form. Not for lack of trying. Um robberies are hard when everyone stays home. Uh it's a lot harder to get that kind of uh that kind of side hustle going uh illegally. So you you know, you gotta stay in the lane and and that that's keeping me from buying in the Patek family these days, but I do really like this watch |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . We'll try to we'll try to fix that in twenty twenty one for you, James. You you and me will do a heist and we'll get you your your uh first paddock. Ooh a heist. It might be a good robbery. I feel complicit now for some somehow. The three of us |
| Danny Milton | can go heat style and uh it's gonna have to be four because we've officially bought in gray. He'll have to cut this out of the chat. All right, all right. Well getting twenty-five percent of one Patek |
| Stephen Pulvirent | fleet. Which is more than I have now. Alright. I'll I'll take the the two pushers sticking off the left side of the case. That's that's about twenty-five percent of the watch, I think. But uh yeah, I uh I also went with a pretty elevated pick uh for this month. Um I would take the eighteen fifteen thin in honey gold from Longa. So good. Dang so good. First of all, first of all, honey gold every damn day of the week. Like you can make you can make anything in honey gold and I would want to buy it. Um but like the eighteen fifteen thin is such a weird longa, it doesn't get nearly as much recognition as the Saxonia thin, but it's like this is a 38 millimeter beautiful longa dress watch in a proprietary gold. Like, I don't know. For me, like if you're if you're we're talking dress watches, this is as good as it gets. Like there's there's nothing you could do to make this watch better |
| Danny Milton | . I think that's an amazing pick. Yeah. Good good poll for sure. So I blew all of my money on Tutor and Rolex in the preceding months. So coming into September, I am splurging on the Timex Q with the LCD. Just kind of one of those things where I'm like, I know some I know I like something when I see it. Jack wrote this one up. I saw it. I said, I like it. Therefore, I'm talking about it now. Um, it's just a cool watch. Um, it's admittedly, if I bought one, I'd probably look at it and appreciate it more than actually wearing it. Um there's other watches, you know, out there that I like wearing more, but I think as like a design object, as a you know, as a vintage revival, um, if you can even call old time X's vintage, I think it's a cool watch. I think it offers something fun. Um and we need that sometimes. And I I like that watch a lot. Yeah. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Good call. Uh I just want to sneak while more in here. Uh honorable mention time, because why the hell not? I can. The Hublelow Classic Fusion 40 year anniversary pieces uh made me look at them and go, am I a Hublow guy now? Like, is that is that who I am?ave H has my like like inter essential essence changed? Uh these watches are really damn good looking and it's a smart way to pay tribute. My only gripe and honestly the thing that kept them from from winning here, because I kind of wanted to give it to the Hublow, uh, is that they're 45 millimeters. And like I just can't wear a 45 mil. It's just too big. Like it's it's not even that it looks too big. It is physically too big and is uncomfortable to wear. Um, but like if they release this watch at like 38 millimeters or even 40 millimeters, dude, I would wear the hell out of a, you know, numeral-less, you know, blacked out Hublo. That'd be fun. Y |
| Danny Milton | ep. No, the the size is the only reason I wouldn't have picked this. It's too big. They are too big. I actually don't even understand why we're perpetuating a 45mm watch when it's based on a reference design that was so much smaller. Like like this seems like a move from 2010 to like look back into your history and be like, well, that looks good, but people feel it's too small. We'll just make a big one. But now like people have come around on on size. Uh you know, the the the reverse panor eye effect of of everybody wanting things that are under forty versus over forty five. And I think this watch would have been I think they could have they could have owned a new cycle if this watch was thirty eight, thirty seven, thirty six, forty, I think, anything over forty, and I think it they it kind it starts to sit with everything they already have. Cause you can buy a big bang forty two millimeter, even in titanium, which is a fantastic watch on wrist. Doesn't feel like 42 millimeters, whereas a bit smaller, has that great tiny dial, you know, a bit of a balance, not on like a doxist. It's understandable why I did get, but these would have been, these would have been just something else at uh yeah, call it 38. Yeah, totally ag |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ree. This week's episode is presented by Grand Seiko. Twenty twenty marks a huge year in the history of Grand Sago. A little over a week ago, the brand turned 60 years old, a milestone that traditionally represents a moment of rebirth in Japanese culture. To celebrate, Grand Seiko both launched the GS9 Grand Seiko Enthusiast Club in the United States and released the limited edition SBGE 263 Spring Drive GMT watch. Like I said, this is a huge moment for Grand Seiko and its fans. The GS9 Club started a few years ago in Japan as a community for Grand Seiko enthusiasts, but now it's open to US-based collectors for the very first time. Anyone who buys a Grand Seiko watch from an authorized dealer can join and enjoy an exclusive e-commerce platform, special events, gifts, and digital content. The first USGS9 special release is the SBGE 263, a celebratory limited edition watch inspired by the beauty of the Eagle. The sporty stainless steel case and bracelet are complemented by a rich brown bezel and dial, with the latter featuring a pattern inspired by the bird's wing feathers. A bright gold GMT hand serves as a nod to the eagle's beak and adds a nice visual punch too. Powering the watch is the 9R66 Spring Drive GMT movement, and you can admire the second's hand gliding elegantly across the dial as a reminder of the tech inside. Only 110 pieces of the SBGE 263 will be made, and the watch is only available in the United States. Pre-order is open now online for GS9 members, and non-members will have the opportunity to purchase via Grand Seco Boutiques beginning in January. As we close out 2020, Grand Seiko is still finding plenty of ways to celebrate, reminding us that watchmaking can be a source of inspiration and community. To learn more about Grand Seiko, the GS9 Club, and the SBGE 263, be sure to visit GrandSako GS9club.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. Alright, let's let's roll into October. We're getting getting to the end of the year here. We got three months left uh october i'll jump in right away here i i went with a watch that i love i don't think i would actually wear so that's like a weird caveat here but um i really love the new Silver Snoopy uh 50th Anniversary Speedmaster. Um again, it's like a little like I I don't own stuff with like logos on it, let alone like would I wear a watch with like a cartoon on it. Like that's just not my not my vibe. Uh but that said, like this is awesome. A blue on white speedmaster is a great idea. And then the case back with like the rotating earth and Snoopy in the capsule going around and ducking behind the moon. Like when we talk about watches with a sense of humor, like the OP36 in those in those bright colors, like this is another case where Omega does so much like, you know, very serious macho like we went to the moon or we're the watch of choice for James Bond, that to be like, yeah, there's a cartoon dog riding a spaceship, you know, around the earth on the case back of your watch. Like I I love that. Like this makes watches fun. It makes them more approachable. It makes them enjoyable for more people. And to do that using the speedmaster as a platform, like all day. I'm I'm gonna vote for that anytime I can. Ye |
| Danny Milton | ah, no, I remember I got to write that intro up for that one and it was the first time where you're reading it in real time and you're like, okay, it's a limited edition Speedmaster. Great. I see white dial. It's blue bezel. And as I'm reading, I wasn't really picking up what they were putting down in the press release. It took me like two reads to realize like, wait a second. So he's traveling around like they like I didn't actually like process the information that Snoopy travels around the dial. The earth is rotating, there's some kind of three-dimensional artwork aspect going on back there. It and when I finally saw the video they released, I I can't wait to see this watch in person. It is really of in a year where we need something like that, I mean that was you you don't know you need that kind of fun watch to kind of brighten your your spirit a little bit, but the Omega pulled that off big time. But I didn't pick it. I didn't pick it. What was your pick? I picked the uh the IWC uh top gun chronograph. Um it was the SFTI edition. And again, um it was a watch that had I not seen it in the metal, and this is like gonna be my kind of mantra for the pot, I think. I don't know that I would have picked it. But I wore it. I got it. I saw it without seeing any spec, so I didn't actually realize the size. Later we found out it's forty four millimeters, but it wears smaller. It it honestly does. I think it's because of the ceramic case um in all black it just wears small and it the quality of IWC dials the matte dials they have on their their pilot lineup is just it's amazing. I mean it it's not like they're not trying to do some kind of vintage effect. It just is like a it just presents as a fun tool watch. Um and that whole package black case with the green textile strap and like the little pops of red everywhere. It was just a really cool release. Kind of under the radar release, too |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I think that's a great choice. I'm I I love me a good IWC pilot. You know you, know.' Its like kind of a watch cliche at this point, but I don't know. They're just great. I own one. I own the Hodingki uh Mark 18. Uh I owned a Mark 17 back in the day. Like they're great watches. Ab |
| Danny Milton | solutely. Uh for this month I picked uh well arguably one of my most favorite watches of the year. Obviously that goes with this list, but even on the this would be on the short list, and that's the new Aqua Star Deep Star reissue. Uh I got one. I absolutely adore it. I have a black dial example, and it is just it's perfect. I mean, it's from the same same general guy that did the sub 300 Doxa re-edition re-edition in twenty seventeen that I've talked about previously that then informed the carbon. So it makes sense, like this uh Rick Rick is his name and he's able he really does have a knack for this, for finding really great legacy designs and then just respecting them. Uh so this is a little bit bigger than an original Deep Star, uh, but still super wearable, 41 millimeters skin diver style case. You get a LeJou Pere column wheel chronograph movement, and it's packaged in in at what I think is a great price point. And I've been wearing it a ton since I got it. Probably my second most worn watch of the year, all things considered. And I just I just think it's uh gorgeous. It has the right movement, it's at the right price point. I think it's just a killer thing from a brand with um with such an incredible history uh for dive watches |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, that's a great watch. That's a watch that never really made it on on my radar, if I'm being honest. Like I remember when it came out being like, Oh, this is cool. And then I I never saw one in person. I mean, like you've mentioned before, like our our usual sort of flow of seeing product was interrupted this year. For sure. Uh between the two of you guys, I think you you you would both know way better than me if this was done well. So uh I think uh if you if it has your vote of confidence I have a funny feeling I would like it too. Yeah I'll uh I'll have to make sure you get a chance to play around with it at some |
| Danny Milton | point. Alright, let's do November. I went crazy in November. I Perfect. That's what I love. I went with the uh the Brightling Chronomat thirty six millimeter. Yeah, I think that's a people don't realize what that is. I think often brands release watches as ladies models and they they they like label them that and then people are just okay okay well I'm not gonna buy that. I think that happened with the OP34, the last generation of it. And uh without you, Steven, I don't think it would have caught on as much. But here, I'm gonna go ahead and say the Chronomat was super popular this year when it was released. I think the bracelet is awesome. The whole vibe of that watch, but it's also pretty big. Um, I think it's what 42 millimeter. But here at 36 millimeters, you're getting a lot of that in a time only or not time only, time and date package that I think is going to be super wearable for a lot of people. Um of course like some of the models are diamond encrusted, but there are a few of them that are just standard steel with a variety of really interesting dials. And I think like I'm looking at that watch. I'd love to check that out. I I could I could wear that for sure |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Dude, if they did this watch in the the all-steel model, but with what they're calling the copper dial, which is basically like, the salmon equivalent. Uh, it would be unbelievable. I would be so on board. Uh, and in steel, these watches are like in 36, they're they're sub five thousand dollars. Like they're really well priced from a brand like Brightling. Uh and I I agree with you. I think I haven't tried this bracelet on, but I would imagine it's extremely comfortable. It looks like it would be. Um yeah, these could be real sleeper hits. It' |
| Danny Milton | d be interesting to see where they take it uh from here because I would love to see I I owned a uh Brightling Aerospace with a similar bracelet from the uh mid nineties, uh an E fifty six O six two, and the um the it has that bullet style bracelet and it was all in titanium, including the rods in the bracelet were all titanium as well. And it was one of the most comfortable uh it it was probably the the m the cheapest feeling most comfortable bracelet I've ever owned because if it wasn't on your wrist, it just rattled like crazy. And then you put it on and it disappeared. It was like not wearing a watch at all. I that was a that's a fantastic watch. And I would love to see them iterate with some titanium, some dark dials. Make something like super masculine. Yeah. At that size. And it can sit right next to the one with the mint green dial. It can sit right next to the ones with all of the all of the stones on them. And and I think all of those need to exist, but I'd love to see the the you know the the the hardcore kind of super sporty version of |
| Stephen Pulvirent | it. Yeah. Especially lest we forget Rolex does not make a 36mm explorer anymore. So brightLink could step in, offer a you know, a for relatively affordable, you know, sub-five thousand dollar steel sport watch on a bracelet at 36 millimeters with a dark dial, or like you said, maybe it's now under six thousand dollars, but it's titanium with a dark dial. Like that could be a really, really appealing watch. I agree. Yeah. Uh my pick was also kind of weird, um, but I don't think we'll be that surprising, uh, which is I went with the Royal Oak double balance wheel open worked in black ceramic. Uh I've been working on a story lately that may or may not be out by the time people uh people hear this. Uh T T V D on that, but uh kind of looking at the the history of the black ceramic pieces uh from AP, but I don't know. Again, like it's sort of cliche to like this watch as much as I like it, but it's so damn cool. Like these black ceramic watches are super lightweight, but they feel really high end at the same time, which is a a tough uh line to walk. Um, and the double balance wheel has always been one of my favorite AP movements. Like that, that's just AP flexing really hard, showing off what they do, and what they do that you know often they get talked about in the same conversation as Vasharon and Patek and like you know these Longa like these the the highest of highest end you know big brands uh but this style, this like very modern high-end watchmaking, uh, I think AP does better than anybody else. I just think they do. Uh, it's different, it's a different approach. And this watch uh caught my attention enough that I wanted to spill a couple thousand words on it, so I figured it should it should make the list here too |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah, killer choice. I got a chance last year. Now I don't actually remember if it was last year. It was cold out. I went to midtown. Uh and I got I went to the uh AP boutique and they they allowed me, I don't know, maybe I had an hour with the uh black ceramic QP. One of the hardest things I've ever photographed. I actually got really lucky because I was walking out of the office I stole something that Will uses as a diffuser. It's like a piece of curled up paper kind of. Yeah. We can cut this story if it's not interesting, but I got to the room at at the AP boutique having never been there before. It's actually quite a bright, airy, tall sort of boutique, and then they took me to this room that was a cave, basically. It was like black it was black velvet room, walls, floor, like black obsidian style table. The light just disappeared. I had one I had one flash with me and and I I didn't I took enough photos for the post so we throw it in the show notes or whatever. But the uh I remember I was it was my flash was hot like hot to the touch and I almost killed a full round of batteries in in a in very short order 'cause you had to run it at such high power. I I remember that and it probab probably stands as my most stolen Instagram photo um on on on uh on you know stuff where people people will post my and then drop me in the comments and what are you gonna do? Cool watches though really cool watches they feel so strange uh like as dumb as this sounds, not in your hand, but on your fingertips, like the edges of the ceramic are there's it's so clearly not metal. Yeah, and it's really hard to describe. And it's not the same with all ceramic watches. There's some that they it's however they finish them or however they create the material, or I'm not really sure. But like there's a distinctly different um like finger pad sensation to an AP ceramic watch than there is to a dark side of the moon or uh uh uh octo or or something like that. And I don't think one's necessarily better than the other. It's probably just a different process in in recreating all of the really fine details of the Royal Oak case. Uh but they feel incredible uh in your hand and and like I said, just just to the touch, like if you get to interact with the buttons or pushers or whatever. Totally agree. Oh, I'm up. Uh let's see what we've got here for November. Oh, uh the do four uh simplicity 20th anniversary stuff uh yeah i mean one of those I I mean talk about a dream watch right like what a what a special thing I guess it technically it would have been uh I think October when the first one was That's okay. Um but they they came forward with the business announcement and and Mr. Safir and and the rest of it on on in November. So I think that's when they kind of said we're gonna make uh what what is it, twenty-one of these or twenty yeah, twenty-one. Uh what what a what a fantastically cool thing. Uh you know, it like and any simplicity would be fine, but this is the simplicity that's that's available right now to uh ten people theoretically. Yeah. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | So let's then let's just go to December and then we'll do our year end wrap up. Um December's so easy. December is so easy. All right. What's what's your December then |
| Danny Milton | ? I mean it's an insider play, but that uh Blanc Pon mill spec that we made. Oh yeah is just it's uh uh I when I saw the images I was kinda jaw dropped because I remember I was at Basel twenty seventeen when they made the their their tribute to MillSpec, uh, which has a date window and the case signature and has a polished case. And I remember I I should go back and find find the post I wrote. Um, but I remember saying like, I don't know about this date display so much. And then uh and then you're kinda like, wouldn't it just be cool if it didn't have a date and was brushed? Which like I kinda I feel like I've said about every fifty fathoms for a long time. And uh and to see them to see the photos and and to uh to to to see how well obviously how well it was received the watch disappeared. Uh it's it's kind of a silly thing for me to talk about 'cause I've you know I've already said I couldn't full of these watches I like and this one is an order of magnitude more expensive. Uh but it it did didnn''tt certainly matter uh to to the to the folks who uh who were able to uh pony up for the cash for it and i think they all got just uh like a perfect dive watch what a th |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ing yeah i don't have much to add to that. me Ian think, that I's a perfect perfect summary of that piece. I was gonna say I picked that one also |
| Danny Milton | . It's uh just an amazing watch. I can't wait to, you know, someday just check that one out in the metal, but just the pictures were incredible for it. Yeah, you really can't beat that in December at the end of 2020 |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great choice. Uh I did pick something different. Um, just cause why not? Um I picked the Seiko King Seiko SJE 083. Um this is essentially Seiko is is relaunching uh King Seiko as as a brand. Um it's an L E. It's three thousand pieces. It's a little pricier than I wanted it to be. Uh it's thirty three hundred dollars, which I was kinda hoping that like they'd come in more between like prospects and grand seco. I was hoping something would come more like $2200, $2300, but um I don't know. I think this is a really beautiful reissue of a design that like I have always liked, other like nerdy Grand Seiko fans have always liked, and and mid-century Seiko fans of all kinds have liked, but that like doesn't really get a lot of play. So it's good to see this one design, but I'm also optimistic that maybe this means, you know, Seiko will bring back King Seiko in a bigger way. Uh, and we might get some more gradations in that product lineup. So I don't know. Part of part of why I picked it is because of, you know, this watch, and part of why I picked it it is it tells me Seiko's thinking in an interesting direction, which when they do that I'm always gonna pay attention. So ye |
| Danny Milton | ah. It's a it's a it's a beautiful thing for sure. And I also kind of felt the same way where, like it'd be neat if this means that we get to see more King Seiko's, maybe Marvel, Lord Marvels, 'cause there's some incredible designs from the sixties and seventies that I think would speak to people today as strongly as they did then. Uh some really, really fun stuff, some some great Marvel and Lord Marvel and KS stuff. So I think yeah, and uh Seiko had a uh just a great year for su |
| Stephen Pulvirent | re. Yeah, I agree with you and I think they had a great year at kind of every price point and every like sub brand which uh is tough tough to do. Alright so to wrap things up uh quickly I'm just gonna ask each of you if you had to have a watch on your wrist from your list of twelve when you woke up on January first, what watch would you want it to be? Price is not an issue. If you could just have it magically appear in your collection first thing January first |
| Danny Milton | I'm going the Zenith, uh the the revival shadow. It's just something about it. The price, no matter the price, there are more expensive watches on my list. Um, but your call to action, if I'm really thinking about it and I wanted to look down and and look at my wrist and see what was there, it'd be that watch. Just something different, something cool, and I'm really into it. Yeah, and in my case I own uh two of the watches that that uh that we covered. So I'm I'm doing pretty well for this year. Uh but also I I might as well if if we're being hypothetical go as greedy as possible. I want that do four. Yeah. Find me a yellow gold uh twentieth |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Chef's kiss, baby. Oh yeah. Um I'm gonna go with one of the two APs. Uh I can't make my make up my mind which one, but I would be happy with either one. Uh something about 2020 and just like, you know, it being such a tough year and it being so kind of like sobering, uh, I kinda want to watch that's just like a big FU watch, you know, something totally superlative but also totally superfluous. Uh, you know, a watch that like you can't really defend, but at the same time, like should kind of defend itself. Um and I just think it'd be fun to have something like while I'm you know sitting in my apartment recording podcasts or, you know, sitting on the couch catching up on emails. Like I'd like the thing scratching my MacBook to be something nice, I think. Sure. Yeah. I can get behind that. Yeah. You know. Plus honestly, I I can't believe I'm saying this. Like I miss going to Switzerland. You know, I used to complain all the time about going too much. Uh and I kinda miss it. Like I want to go to the Valley de Jou and spend a day eating like really mediocre food and speaking through awful language barriers with a bunch of like dudes who have been making watches for the last 40 years. Uh, I miss it. And a watch like that, like a really, really high-end AP would remind me of some uh you know good days spent in Librasu and and with those people. So uh all in all, I mean we mentioned it up top, but like 2020 pretty good year for watches for products. You know, let's forget the industry and everything else. But like I th I think there was a moment there in March that we all kind of expected this year to be quiet. We thought people might just not release anything. Uh and instead they dropped they dro somepped heaters on us |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah, it just seems because it was so spread out, it's hard it was hard to realize it all happened this year. And it wasn't until I looked back to make my list I was like, wow, there's like a lot to choose from. There were some months where I was I I was hedging. I have multiple picks on there. I mean there' |
| Stephen Pulvirent | s there was there was a lot of good stuff. Well, I appreciate you guys doing this. Uh this is a fun way to wrap up the year and uh we'll have you have you back on mic in early 2021. Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Thanks, Steven. Thanks, James. Awesome. Happy New Year, guys. Up next, I talked to Jack, John, and Cole about the future of the watch industry. Hey guys, good to see you. Good to see you too, Steven. Good to see you. Hello, Steven. This is the last Hodinky radio segment of twenty twenty. At least as of recording this, the plan is for this to be the last Hodinky radio segment of twenty twenty. With uh with great with great power comes great responsibility. Hey, the responsibility is all on you guys. I'm I'm here every week. So uh I'm I'm just trucking along. Uh I uh you you guys are the ones who have to close out big year. It's a it's a little bit of a weird situation. We're all um |
| Jack Forster | normally this would be us in the office, uh you know sitting in the library, uh all talking into microphones and we're j we're all uh geographically in complete in very different locations. Yeah, I feel like this is the kind |
| Danny Milton | of recording where we might have like a you know, late afternoon scotch or uh a glass of eggnog or something in the office holiday season kind of uh episode. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I would probably put put the scotch in the eggnog, Jen. I was gonna say why late afternoon? Like I think this could be a lovely like mid morning scotch uh occasion. Dig dig in early. Amen. All right. So what we're gonna talk about this week is the trade shows. And like that may seem a little bit weird, a little bit like tradey and industry uh focused, but I think through talking through this, we'll get a sense of where the industry was in 2019, all the craziness that happened in 2020, and maybe like sort of some like sneak peeks of what the industry might look like in 2021. Uh and I think the impacts are way beyond the like journalists like us and the retailers. And I I really think this is going to impact end consumers too. Does that does that make sense and sound good for you guys? Sounds good. Yeah, sounds great. Sounds fantastic. Yeah. Perfect. Everybody on board. That's my favorite way to start the show. I'm j I'm just waiting for one of these weeks when I ask that question and everybody's like, nah, that's terrible. It's gonna happen. I'm saving if you're 2020. All right. I I got something to look forward to, Cole. Uh all right, let's let's start things off. I I think the biggest change, and and correct me if you guys disagree, I think the biggest change is is the trade shows. Uh the watch world has for you know over a century oriented itself around these big moments. They're in Switzerland almost invariably. Uh there are times where different brands, different groups, people who are usually pretty cutthroat competitors, all kind of cooperate and get together to be the watch world in scare quotes, uh, as opposed to brand A, brand B, brand C. Uh the trade shows, as we know them are are dead. You know, the trade shows are dead. Long live the trade shows, right? Um for people who may not be familiar, you know, the the rough structure was SIHH in January, which was Richemont. Uh Basel World in March, April, it kind of moved around a little bit. Uh, and that was basically everybody else. Uh, and then later in the year we'd get releases here and there, you know, things like events like Dubai Watch Week uh have come on the scene. Less of a trade show, more of an industry event, but like really those two tent poles oriented the watch industry. Have I have I missed anything there? Any any other things that you think are important? No, I mean I would say uh |
| Jack Forster | yeah the trade shows are gone uh a lot of trade shows are gone you know the first uh the first Basel world was the 1917 Schweitzer Uh Mess uh which was uh a little bit more of a I'm I'm reaching deep back into the uh deep back into the archives. Um you know but it was a little bit more of a general industrial trade show uh in Switzerland that gradually evolved into the watch and jewelry show that you know we knew and loved. And uh wow, um you know, uh it's not just our industry. Uh there's uh uh a real question as to whether or not in-person trade shows, you know, now in retrospect, um, you know, at the end of twenty twenty, do we I mean do we need these things? We I mean we all miss them. I I I mean I I loved going to Basel World. I loved going to SIHH. You know, it was like uh you know summer camp except it was in the middle of winter. Um you know for uh for watch enthusiasts and you got you y you know you saw people that you would only see maybe once or twice a year. You know, you saw your colleagues and you know it,'s uh it's hard to peel back the nostalgia that one feels for those things with what they were actually worth in terms of efficiency for communic |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ation. Yeah, I think I think that's a good point, Jack. I think you know the the trade shows have a business purpose and then they also have a a like you know, I would say like a soft purpose, like a more intangible purpose, which is all the stuff that happens when you're walking through the hallways and you run into people and and all of that kind of stuff. And for us as as Hodinky, it's also been a key like team building moment for us. You know, I I remember in the early days of Hodinky, like, you know, Will, Ben, and at the time Blake and me, you know, would share an apartment for a week. And like these are guys, the first time we did this, I'd known them less than a year, you know, and we're like sharing an apartment, cooking dinner for each other like hanging out and it really it really I think became a big part of our our team's ethos and that's that's stayed the same as we've grown you know I uh the last Basel World we went to in 2019 I shared an apartment with Cole and and James it was like Cole had just started and it was like a great way to get to know Cole and a great way to like integrate Cole into the team. Um, you know, I've had Joe Thompson literally come into uh a living room wearing a like bathrobe over his pajamas, uh, to wish all of us a good night and to tell us job well done for the day. Like those kind of things actually matter in a in a real way. And and I'm with you, Jack. Like if if the trade shows don't come back, like I I'm genuinely gonna miss that |
| Cole Pennington | . I I'm lucky I got to go to one. I'm like I'm very, very excited and happy and grateful that I at least got one in. And then I can cross that off the bucklist. Yeah. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Well let's let's start let's look at what happened in twenty twenty for the shows. We'll just go chronologically through the year, see what happened, what didn't happen, what's gonna happen next year but differently. Um so let's kick things off with really the only show that like fully happened uh and that's even sort of uh is the LVMH watch week in Dubai, uh, which took place January 13th to 15th. Um LVMH announced after last year that they were they were leaving you know Basel World to do their to do their own thing. Um it was something I think people anticipated happening kind of year after year, and it finally happened. I was supposed to attend and ended up not. And that's that's where I give the caveat that it sort of happened. I would say the show like 90% happened. Uh there were a number of Americans who didn't go to the show uh because it happened the week that the Trump administration was uh attempting to start a war with Iran uh and the UAE uh was on the list of missile targets, so uh chose not to go. Uh was not great. But moving past that, uh the LVMH brands, Hublow, Bulgary, Zenith, and Tagware had this amazing event and released some pretty great watches. I mean, I know Jack, you had quite a few favorite watches from the year that came out like what, two weeks into the year? Yeah, absolutely. I mean |
| Jack Forster | there was a lot of great stuff released. Uh you know normally you like to see these things in person. I actually have my first in-person uh meeting with a watch brand to look at a watch uh yesterday uh first time in in uh I think 10 months, first time since March. And uh it was the whole thing was very you know surreal. It reminded me, you know, first of all, just how how energizing and how much fun it is to actually see these things in person instead of you know trying to imagine what they're like in person from press releases and from renderings. Um yeah. You know, and uh not not being in Dubai uh, you know, for the launch of these pieces was it's it's it's tough, you know. I mean uh we've um everybody who's uh you know on this call has seen enough watches and been to enough trade shows that you can kind of you can kind of imagine what they're like but, you you you really do need to see these things and uh that's a tough uh to me that was the toughest thing about twenty twenty is that you just don't you don't you don't get to experience these things. You know, you get to see I mean even seeing uh an amazing watch for five minutes in a meeting at a trade show is a thousand times better than trying to figure out what it looks and feels like from uh press release. It |
| Danny Milton | 's interesting that that LBMH event just kind of squeaked in right before everything really shut down. And so it stands out as as as the big event that happened. And then in the time since it's kind of it's been I would say more difficult than any time I would say in in my career to really be able to weigh what you know what really matters in terms of watch releases because they've kind of just been there's just been with the exception of some some virtual events where we saw um a number of big brands kind of activate all at once, but uh it's just been like a trickle, you know, of kind of this watch here, this watch there. |
| Jack Forster | And not put Well and John, those virtual those virtual events are uh they're they're tricky, right? I mean um you know the brands are trying, but uh you know you have the head of marketing for you know a major brand trying to introduce a watch by holding it up in front of a zoom camera in a zoom meeting with like relatively low resolution. Yeah and you know it's just it's I mean it's it's it's It's no really no substitute for s like seeing, you |
| Danny Milton | know, a number of watches, as many as thirty or forty watches in person over the course of a day and then, you know, sitting down with a little bit of reflection and and saying, o,kay what what are the are the four most important watches that I need to write about |
| Stephen Pulvirent | today? Um it it just hasn't been possible. Yeah, and and and that's really I mean the the thing you you both mentioned about virtual trade shows and the the difficulties of it bring up something interesting for the next couple months, which is that LVMH is doing this event again, but fully virtually. They're they're unable to do it in person. They can't do it in Europe. They can't do it in the US. Uh they've chosen not to do it in Asia. Um and and it'll be interesting to see if the event, by all accounts, it was a huge success last year. Everyone I spoke to at LVMH and retailers said it was awesome. That like sell in, sell out, the whole thing was just like great from a business standpoint. It'll be interesting to see if this virtual event is the same. Like is it just us as the the journalists who are like, ah, I can't really see it in person. It's like not quite the same. Or I wonder if that'll affect the the more like retail focused uh side of this as well. |
| Cole Pennington | What what would pres prevent these brands from sending around? Like you know they have you can do trunk shows, regional trunk shows that can be controlled |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah, there is. I mean I would say this gets us right back to the the kind of institutional problems, which is like, you know, I'll leave the brand nameless. I'm sure Jack has these experiences and John has these experiences too, but like I've heard multiple times at trade shows in the past where like you're like, Oh hey, I heard you did this piece. Can I check it out? And they're like, oh no, we have one non-functioning prototype and it's with the sales team all day and it literally was finished yesterday. Like somebody personally drove it from the factory to the show uh so that we could show it. And it's like, you're right, Cole, it would be possible, but like try to get a major watch brand to produce I don't know, 50 to 100 pre-production samples to ship all over the world? Like good good luck. Like I I can't imagine that happening. I'm gonna call some people after this. I'm gonna make a few phone call |
| Danny Milton | s. How many times have you guys experienced like working with uh, you know, uh benefiting from the work of a really good publicist who will go bad for you and say, Let me go get that piece and then they're able to get it for you for like five minutes. And so you take whatever photos you can, you know, make whatever impressions of it you can, but you have five minutes with this thing and then it's gone, |
| Jack Forster | you know? Well, and you're you know, you're lucky to have the five minutes. I mean, you know, the thing is the thing is, uh, you know, at the trade shows, for better or worse, you would you would at least get five minutes. And you know, at Basel World and at SIHH, uh you know, you have ten meetings a day, twelve meetings a day for the first three days, but at least you get to see stuff, at least you get to handle stuff. You have an opportunity to try to set up uh you know photo shoots you know for the for the high level stuff and this year if you want to have any like any hands on time at all you have to talk to the publicist and they have to call it in and it has to be brought into uh you know wherever it is you want to shoot it under COVID-19 restrictions. Like instead of it being an easy thing to do in five minutes to fifteen minutes, it becomes an incredibly complicated thing to do that takes like three days of arranging. I mean, Steven's been through this a million times with you know everything he and Tiffany have shot, you know, for us this year and she's she's done amazing work. But you know uh, in the for the trade shows, it was easy. You know, we'd have five guys out there with cameras who could shoot a decent five pictures of a watch, including a wrist shot. And now, um, you know, every single watch we want to shoot, it's it's like organizing uh you know the Omaha beach landings uh you know on D Day. Yeah. Wow |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Good rest. I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna share one detail and then I do want to move on and and talk about Basel and SIHH like you mentioned, Jack, but uh I had one brand where I had to sign a piece of paperwork that said I would not be putting the watch on my wrist or anyone else's wrist, and that I would only be handling the watch with gloves and a mask on and if I violated that the brand was then required to leave the watch in a special like detox safe uh for two weeks uh as their procedure so that like watch straps wouldn't be a disease vector. This was really early on. We still weren't like a hundred percent knowledgeable about like how this thing transmits. Uh but like people took this seriously and it was an extremely huge hurdle for us to jump over uh just to like make things that otherwise, like you say, would have been like easy easy peasy. I I didn't see any uh wrist shots with gloves on or anything on the site, Steven. Uh yeah, because we didn't shoot this watch on a wrist. It wasn't allowed, man. Gloves only. All right. So so let's let's leave LVMH there. And and I think L VMH is going to be a good case study because we'll it it will have been the last show before COVID, and then it'll be the first show where we get to see it again under COVID protocols. So I think you know, we'll probably come back and chat more about this in like late January, early February. Um, because I think we'll have a better, a better sense of like how one organization is handling the change. Um but it's already kicked off, I mean, all of these like really interesting questions we've talked about. Baselworld, I think, is is the next thing I want to talk about. I'm going to lay out a quick timeline because Baselworld uh was a veritable roller coaster, I think is maybe the best way to put it. Um better and nicer than the other words uh I could use. Um but basically the news started it big time on April 14th. I mean, yes, the twenty twenty twenty Basel World got canceled. We knew or postponed indefinitely. We knew that. That I don't even really think was like a surprise. Uh April fourteenth, Rolex, Tutor, Patek, Chopard, and Chanel all exit. They announce that they're forming their own consortium, there's going to be some other brands involved, and they're going to do their own show. Three days later, on April 17th, LVMH exits uh fully. And again, they were doing their own show already, but they were still gonna stay in and support Basel and whatever. No more. That's done. May 7th, Basel World cancels their 2021 show. Uh at which point everybody assumes Basel's dead. That it's just the show is done, it's not gonna happen, they've canceled now two years, whatever. July 9th, my birthday, uh stuff gets shaken up. Uh the Murdoch family announces that they're investing in MCH, which is the parent company, which also owns Art Basel, which, if we're being honest, is probably the bulk of the reason for the investment, not the Basel World show. Uh super weird. Uh, and we can get into that, but uh that's announced on July 9th, July 23rd. Basel World announces their rebranding as our universe, H-O-U-R universe, uh, and that there will be a show in 2021. So effectively, like May 7th, it's canceled, July 23rd, it's back on, but with a new name and a new owner. Uh and then September 30th, dates were set for our universe. It's happening in April. It like by all accounts is basically a smaller basel world with fewer brands and a lot more of like a c consumer focus, uh, which Basel World was already trying to do. And that's where we're at now. So at the beginning of the year, we had Basel World, but brands were leaving. It's future was kind of uncertain. And over the course of basically like from April to September, so over the course of like five or six months, uh the show died, was purchased, was rebranded, and new dates were set. Uh pretty, pretty interesting, I guess is, maybe the right word. What do you what do you guys think |
| Cole Pennington | ? I uh am thinking that's a ballsy move to set it in April. Let's see if uh they follow through with it. You know? I mean that's a pretty aggressive thing, especially given the state of supposed to run |
| Danny Milton | . April seems very close. I mean obviously the vaccines are coming online and uh we'll see how how how quickly or h how slowly those are actually rolled out to people, but April does feel very close on the calendar |
| Cole Pennington | . But I want to go back, that's for sure. I miss all the uh camaraderie |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Same. Uh I I wonder, Jack, what do you think a an Our Universe show looks like with no LVMH, no Swatch Group, no Rolex tutor, no paddock, no Chanel, and no showpark? Uh I mean |
| Jack Forster | smaller. Empty. Yeah. You know, um the other thing is that uh okay, I I understand the rebranding. I mean our universe, like I feel like there are way too many puns in uh the watch world as it is. Um I missed the name Basel World. Uh you know, that event is not coming back as we all remember it. But at the same time, you know, the great thing about Basel World was it was the only was really the only thing that happened once a year where the entire Swiss watch industry, absent the brands who, you know, were uh at SIHH, you know, the industry kind of came together and said, Hey, this is the unique th here's a wonderful unique cultural heritage of Switzerland, which is watchmaking. You know, and let's all support this. And the balkanization of the brands I don't think has been good for the watch industry. And I feel like you know the Swiss, they never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And to have uh to have a single unified I I can't remember where I stole that quote from, but it had nothing to do with watches, I know that. Um you know, but but the the opportunity to have a s to have a sort of single unified voice that says, hey, we are all Swiss watch brands, you know, uh everything from Shepard and Patrick Philippe to Tusso, you know, and and the Japanese brands, Citizen Group, uh Seiko, Grand Seiko, and everything in between, you know, just to have a place where the world got together once a year to celebrate watches was a wonderful thing. And I don't miss Basel World per se as much as I miss the fact that once a year we all just got together and you know said, Hey, you know, you're you're making watches in Japan, you're making watches in Germany, you're making watches in Switzerland. Watches are cool. We all love them. And let's uh you know let let's have an event that uh you know acknowledges and celebrates what's fantastic about this crazy little world we live in |
| Cole Pennington | the I uh I had an interesting thought here when you know I was kinda just just now. Um you know the World Fair or whatever was held in Long Island at one point? You know the uh there's like remnants of the World Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. This kind of feels like, you know, the World Fair, everyone came together and it was grandiose and everyone celebrated everything, right? We don't really have World Fairs anymore. This could be what Basel World is. We just won't. It'll be fragmented, and the sort of nostalgia for what once was will replace, you know. So let's see. But these shows sound, yeah, like totally a bunch of bifurcations. How what like now there was Expo 2010, which is supposedly the World Fair, but it was not. So I think Basel World will take the place of like the World Fair in the 60s. We'll look back very fondly on these this this like that time. Hey |
| Jack Forster | Steven. Uh I'm curious about something. What's your like what's your first memory of Basel W |
| Stephen Pulvirent | orld? Oh, what is my first Basel World memory? That's |
| Jack Forster | a really good question, Jack. Because that goes back a while. I think uh um you know maybe a lot of people who listen I mean people listen to the show, they like they know that I've been to a million boss worlds, John's been going to them maybe longer than I have, but uh you know, you've been going to them, you know, forever also |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. My first Basel World was Basel 2013. Uh we stayed on Rheingusstrassa, uh right around the corner from the show. Um it was Ben, Will, Blake Bettner, and me in a three bedroom apartment uh that had a diverse like a diving bell style like diving helmet uh hanging over the front door, which was super weird. You're kidding. Jerry Mazzle. Do you have a kid like that? Is there a photo we can look up to in the show notes? I probably have a photo on my phone somewhere, but uh yeah we, uh it was awesome. And like, you know, I I remember getting there and like Ben had kind of prepped me and been like, all right, like this is crazy. It's gonna be totally nuts, like it's gonna be overwhelming. And I was like, I've been like, I know what trade shows are. Like I can do this, you know? Uh and I remember walking through that front door on press day and just being like, holy shit. Like I had never seen so many watches or so many people interested in watches in one place. Uh, and at the time, you know, we were pretty run and gun, and I remember we ran over to the Rolex booth before the little green shutters go up or green shades go up to reveal the new watches. And like standing there with everybody just like shaking, just like waiting to see what the new Rolex is gonna be |
| Jack Forster | . I was like, holy shit, there are that many people who actually care about watches. 2013. What was what was the big Rolex release? Was that the P |
| Stephen Pulvirent | latinum Daytona or was it something else? Uh the Big Rolex release 2013. I'd have to double check. The Daytona was either 2013 or 2014 because I remember uh Ben was like despondent uh after the release. And he was so he's since come around, and I know he likes that watch now. Uh but I remember like Ben was expecting like a steel ceramic bezel Daytona, like you know, what we got a couple years later. And I remember the window went up and he looked at it and then like walked around the booth trying to see if the thing he was looking for was somewhere else. Uh and he was like legit, and and like I'm not talking out of turn here, Ian I think have even talked about this on the show before, but like oh dude, dude, we were all freaked out. He was he was in a bad mood for like two or three days. He was like upset about this. Uh and like people asked him about it. People would be like, Are you are you okay? And he'd be like, Yeah, fucking Daytona, you know? Like, and it was it was real. And like to be in a place for a couple days every year where this thing that you know the four of us do for a living and that presumably everybody who's listening to this enjoys, but like in the broader world is sort of weird and off-beat and like alien, you know, to be in a place where everyone is as into it as you or more, uh, is a cool thing. It's a really special thing. And like I can say that like some of my favorite hodinky memories are are of the trade shows of that time that we, you know, uh you know, on the on the business side or like on the business, by business I mean like doing my job side of things, uh like when the system fifty one came out, I somehow was able to talk Rosita, who ran uh PR for Swatch in the US at the time. Shout out to Rosita Wheeler. Uh I was able to talk her into literally going to Mr. Hayek and getting the prototype off his wrist for me to shoot in a conference room. It was the only it was one of two working examples they had. There was that one and one in a vitrine that they couldn't remove. It was like under lock and key. Uh and I got again five minutes with the original system fifty-one the day it came out. And it was like that felt huge and it was so exciting. And it was like a time where I was like, I'm a part of like this industry in a meaningful way. And I just hope that whatever happens to our universe and the other shows, I hope that like people get to keep having those experiences, whether they're journalists or retailers or end consumers. But I don't know. To me the the real value of the shows is how much they make you feel a part of this thing in a in a real |
| Jack Forster | I want to ask them while we while while we have them like uh you know C,ole, you went to one Basel World and John, you've been to like a million Basel Worlds. I'm curious, like like like you guys, like what's your what what's your like big Basel World memory? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I can't talk about on heavy gradient |
| Cole Pennington | . Okay. Totally good. I |
| Stephen Pulvirent | 'm totally good. We had to go |
| Cole Pennington | pick him up at three in the morning. It wasn't jacked up. Don't worry about it. The three kings did a number on me, you know. Um no, no. I think uh very similar to what I mean Stephen Steven already captured it. So for me as an outsider, you know, I was a hood and key reader long before I was on the inside, so I followed it, followed it. It's kind of like uh there is some halo around Basel World. This is this crazy thing. And I put it on my list of like things to do in life to see if I could swing it somehow. Like, could I go here just on my own? The answer is not really, to begin with. You can't. You can't just walk in. I I couldn't but I looked into it back in the day. No, that's true. You can. Yeah. Um and then when I got there, it was just like, whoa, this is just as crazy as I thought. And and that kind of gobsmacked feeling I think is my biggest memory. And then also I would say the the little kind of in between moments sitting around the table with James and Steven drinking whiskey and writing a shit ton and being on deadline and being stressed as hell, but also cranking out good work, like work I was proud of. And uh oh, and then meeting CEOs of these crazy brands and then them telling me that they've read something I've written like you know, a few months after I started, it was like, whoa, this is crazy. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Thank God that James knows where to get a good bottle of whiskey in Basel. |
| Danny Milton | Yeah, that helped. Don, what about you? Yeah, I mean I the first one for me was just such a blur and it was uh uh now it's so long ago it's hard honestly to to remember much. It was it would have been two thousand and uh two thousand and six. It would have been s uh spring of two thousand and six would have been my first one. Uh and really, I mean I I remember just kind of cramped accommodation cramped accommodations, staying on one of those hotel ships on the Rhine uh is one thing that kind of jumps out. Um just you stayed on one of the ships. Yep, that's the the first several years that I went, I I stayed on the hotel ships on the Rhine. Um uh what else? Which were quite far from the show actually. You'd have to take a bus and all of that. Um I remember uh just walking around, um this was would have been with IW, uh the first publication I worked uh with right out of college. Um, you know, just like going around to like many, you know, I was you know, young youngest guy there, new guy at the publication, um going to all the smaller brands really to just see if they had anything interesting and getting as many press kits in English as I could. Uh Hall Five used to be where where most of those brands were uh in the original Basel World layout. Um so that's something that definitely stands out. But then also um it probably wasn't my first year but uh sometime after you know being invited finally into the Rolex booth and having an appointment and sitting there and being like one of the first people in the world to see like the new Rolex releases was uh kind of mind blowing. Um in I can say the same thing about paddock like having a having a Patek Felipe appointment. You know, I I can't remember if it would have actually been the first year, but you know, one of one of those first times going in there seeing like Terry Stern just kind of like, you know, shooting the breeze with one of his retailers or or some some journalist as I walked in and like knowing exactly who that person was and how important he is in our industry. Um I mean there was another time I was I had an appointment in um this would have been early on as well, I had an appointment um uh with Brigade in like Nick Hayek Jr. just pop his head in to say hi. You know, it was just very quick, but it's like, you know, arguably the most powerful person in the watch industry just popping his head in to say hi. |
| Jack Forster | It was wild. And my my other memory, um, you know, w which uh which which you brought up is of of Terry's turn the year that the pilot watch came out. You know, the the much the much maligned pilot watch that everybody hated. Uh so we had our up we had our appointment. You remember this, Steve. We had we had our appointment and uh you know we're we're walking down to leave the paddock Philippe booth and Terry Stern is walking you know up the stairs to go to another meeting. And I said, Oh Mr. Stern, that's great to see you. Uh so uh you know the pilot watch is kind of controversial. And he looked at me, he looked really exhausted and said, Yes, yes. Uh everybody who sees it says, Oh, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, uh, how could you possibly do such a thing? And before they leave, they say, uh, can you reserve one for me? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Those are those those are definitely like peak Basel World moments. Like that is what Basel World is is stuff like that. Um well I want I want to make sure we get some time to talk about Watches and Wonders, Nay, SIHH, uh as as well here before we wrap. I'm going to do a similar thing here real quick to what I did for Baza World. So in October of twenty nineteen, SIHH announced that they were rebranding as Watches and Wonders. Watches and Wonders was a name they'd already been using for shows in Asia, shows in Miami. Um but they were that was gonna be the new name. So there would be Watches and Wonders Geneva, Watches and Wonders Miami, Watches and Wonders Shanghai, and they'd they'd be different events. Uh February, February late February, February twenty-seventh. Watches and Wonders 2020, Geneva gets canceled. April 20th, they announced it's going online five days later on the 25th. So that's why uh, you know, we got this huge, huge batch of watches all released at the end of April. Uh then over the summer, they announced that there would be a show in Shanghai in the fall, uh in September. Uh and it happened. It it went off. This was during the time when cases were extremely low in uh in China, so they were able to do it. Uh and then November 17th, they announced that uh Watches and Wonders Geneva 2021 would be fully online. So yet another show moves fully digital. Um this was kind of like just another case. Again, over over the course of the year, we saw a major show had changes planned for 2020. Those changes didn't happen. They then changed plans again, and then those plans were forced to go digital. So it seems like we're establishing a bit of a pattern here. Um and I wonder like Basel World is is one thing. SIHH is very different, you know, in the in the ways that Jack and and John have emphasized the like coming together nature of Basel World, SIHH and Watches and Wonders is is by its very nature exclusive. It's invite only. Um it's not really open to the public in the way that Basel is. I mean you couldn't just walk into Basel, but like you could get tickets. There were there were ways to make it work. Uh SIHH is invite only. Everybody shows up in suits and ties. It's like very uh you know there's hospitality. There's food and beverage around. Like it's it's really meant to be a more like a corporate event, I would say. Um and so I wonder if you guys have any thoughts on like how this change will impact Watches and Wonders maybe differently than Basle World, or if you think it's it's gonna be kind of the same net effect in the end? I've never been, by the way. I've never been to |
| Cole Pennington | SIH. I've always like the G eight summit versus uh a UN summit or something like that. But I've never been, so who knows? So I'll just I'll just sit this one out here. I mean that's not |
| Danny Milton | a terrible analogy. No, not at all. Yeah, if the Basel World is like the general assembly, this is uh the G eight. Um SIHH was in G eight. Yeah, I mean uh i i it'll be hard to say. I mean w I I really I'm as curious as anyone to see what an in-person watches and wonders uh in Geneva will eventually look like when it happens, because I just you know, I just don't know. Um it's uh SIHH was always a very, very pleasant um show to attend. I mean things were it was uh you know while there were fewer brands they were uh almost exclusively high end or I would say exclusively high-end brands um and um you would just by virtue of the fact that it wasn't so crowded, you got a little bit more time with the watches. And it was a little bit more geared toward um providing an experience that was optimized for you to provide optimal coverage, if that makes sense |
| Jack Forster | . Yeah, I feel like people are either, you know, like watch journalists are either like team SIHH or team Baselworld. Yeah. I mean I feel like, you know |
| Danny Milton | , there's something about kind of the the bootstrappy nature of like going to Basel World and staying in the Airbnb and you know eating uh a pretzel bread sandwich while you're trying to like, you know, look at your your calendar for your next appointment uh in a in a crowded press room that was um I mean it was a it was it's a it was always a great experience and it was um a lot of fun. Um but I always just thought that SIHH was a little bit uh it was an easier show to digest and an easier show to c |
| Stephen Pulvirent | over it.right, so so with all of that in mind, I mean we've got now LVMH is doing this thing in January virtually. Uh we're gonna have a virtual watches and wonders in April. As of now, it looks like the plan is for our universe to be both digital and in person. We'll see if that happens in April. Uh a lot could happen between now and then or not happen between now and then. Uh and then we've got players like Swatch Group, Seiko Grand Seiko, uh, this consortium of tutor role expadic show part and chanel there's still a lot undecided so you know we can't really give people too much of a like this is what twenty twenty one's gonna look like in watches but I wonder from each of you just, to kind of like finish the year on a high note here, uh what is something each of you hopes to see in 2021 from the industry, like something macro that you want to see that either we didn't get this year or that we got that you want to see taken to another level, something that was lost that could come back. You know, it's pretty pretty much an open-ended question here |
| Jack Forster | . Yeah, I mean, I miss the in-person trade shows. I miss uh you know, uh the uh the sort of summer camp aspect of them was was delightful. Uh the team building aspect was delightful, but to actually not to to to not be able to see most of the uh new pieces in person is uh man that that that makes life difficult. It's uh you know it's as if you're a wine reviewer and you have to uh you know suddenly you can't taste the wine anymore. You have to review a wine based on tasting notes provided by the manufacturer. And again, you know, it's like it's not the same |
| Cole Pennington | . I think um going forward, I will not not the inverse of that, but sort of. I kind of like how we've digitally found solutions to problems that aren't aren't really our choice. And I think in a way, this sort of proliferation of information dissemination in the watch world through Zoom or whatever is good. It can become more inclusive. It can allow more people to be involved. And uh I am excited to see how we or how this affects it going forward. Sure, I'll miss everything, but I only got one bosselin anyway, so whatever, you know. Um but I think it'll be exciting to see the solutions that companies and media like us come up with to keep doing what we're doing |
| Danny Milton | . Yeah, I would I would echo uh Cole's point. I I think I'd I'd love to see what you know obviously COVID will come to an end. There will be an end to this, there will be will the vaccine will will be rolled out and we will return to normal. But I'm really interested to see what will remain of uh the the virtual introductions that have kind of appeared uh during this period and how uh you know, what what will the lasting effects be of this uh situation that was foisted upon us. Um and I just hope though that there that out of all of this, you know, one show will emerge. It probably won't be anything like Basel World ever was. But I hope there will be something that will get you, know more, than half of the watch world to show up somewhere, Switzerland, wherever uh it happens to be, where we can all get together and uh, you know, clink glasses and um chat and uh enjoy the enjoy each other's company, you know, the the uh the friends that we've made over the |
| Jack Forster | years and that we will make in the future. Yeah, you know, uh I would like to believe that there's gonna be a return to normal, but I don't think that there's a normal to return to at this point. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. Yeah. And I I actually think, you know, Jack to that point, I I think we touched on it earlier, specifically with Basel World, about the the fragmentation of the watch industry and the fact that these these groups that formerly could like come together and work together toward a common goal, which was like make watches matter to the world. Um, you know, we kind of lost that. And and I'm hoping that we can maybe get some of that back. You know, I'm I'm hoping that some of the economic impacts and logistical impacts of of COVID can maybe shake these groups and these brands out out of that uh I think um hubristic sort of uh calling it a myth is not not the right word, but like to shake them out of their hubris and say like we are stronger together than we are separately. And like worldwide, the the like market penetration of luxury wristwatches is still pretty small. Like there's nothing but room for growth here. Uh and if this is gonna survive into the 21st century in a in a real meaningful way, like this can't be a brand A versus brand B every minute of everyday situation. Like, sure, at the sales counter when you're deciding between watch A or watch B, like sure, those brands want to have the salespeople trained to promote their stuff. They want to make the best products, they want to have the best prices. They want to like, sure, I get that. That's market competition. It's real fine. But like once a year, come together and say, like, hey, I can reach across the aisle and like, yes, we both make forty-five hundred dollar forty-two millimeter chronographs and we're competing against each other. But like, we can also like shake hands and say that like we're in the same game here and it's better if we all win. Uh and I I'm hoping that some of that mentality comes back uh and maybe even stronger than it was in the past. I I I really think I I truly believe that the way forward for watches in the twenty first century is for watches as a category to push forward. Uh and it's that, you know, rising tides raise all boats. You know, um, I think is is much better than this, like, you know, just speaking selfishly, if we have some kind of like BS virtual trade show to attend every week, we're not gonna get anything done. And I think consumers will find it confusing and product rollouts being so haphazard and people not knowing when this is in market versus that's in market. Was this announced or can I go buy it? Like that bullshit just has to stop. Like 21st century consumers expect more than that and are too smart for that. And uh I'm hoping the industry can kind of like pull together and find a new a new way forward for everybody that is better for everyone. |
| Danny Milton | You make a really good point, man. I mean I I I rememberember uh i rem a i remember uh pre-covid as this the schedule was just becoming so hard to follow sitting down and trying to map it out myself and thinking about maybe even like writing an article to help readers but even in real time, as I was starting to write, like it was just evolving. Devolving. It bec |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ame what it became impossible. Yeah. Yeah. And you spend and you spend what, forty to sixty hours a week eat sleeping and breathing watches? Imagine just being like somebody who is interested in this as a hobby and trying to follow it. Like what a disaster for everyone. Like I don't know. Well, guys, this has been really good. I really appreciate you talking through this with me. I know like finishing the year on trade show talk is kind of weird, but I I think this is actually kind of like a microcosm for everything strange that's happening in the industry right now.. Oh hundred percent It's gonna impact everyone and everything. So um we'll see. I think it's a it's an interesting year ahead. I think we've all voiced kind of what we hope hope to see and we'll just keep checking in throughout the year and and see what what comes and what doesn't. Cole, I can't believe you never got to go to an SIH |
| Cole Pennington | H. And I never will. It sucks. But is what it is. I'm grateful for everything that I've been given in this world |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Jack, should we just stage like a fake SIHH? Just take Cole to the Pell Expo Center, give him a glass of champagne and tell him to write six introducing posts before lunch. Wander wander wander around confused and be like, I thought there was a booth here. |
| Jack Forster | We'll do something we'll do something in my apartment. I'll uh I love it. I'll buy some uh I'll buy some ble I'll buy some Belinis and cav and uh salmon caviar and uh we we can drink champagne at eleven o'clock in the morning. Perfe |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ct. Well I'll get my uh suit dropped off at the driveway next week. So I'm ready to do that. Done. Done. Uh awesome. Thank you guys. This was awesome. I think this is a super fun way to close things out. And uh yeah, we'll see everybody in 2021. See you guys. Happy New Year, by the way. Happy holidays and happy new year, everybody. |