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Chef & Author Thomas Keller

Published on Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:00:00 +0000

Episode 115 is all about craft, passion, and generosity.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Steven Pulvirent sits down with renowned Chef Thomas Keller to discuss his relationship with watches, his new cookbook "The French Laundry Per Se," and the philosophy behind his approach to fine dining. Chef Keller, known for his iconic restaurants including The French Laundry and Per Se, reveals how his watch collection marks important milestones in his career, from his first Baume & Mercier commemorating the French Laundry's opening to a Vacheron Constantin Overseas celebrating its 25th anniversary. He discusses the practical considerations of wearing watches in the kitchen, favoring durable pieces like Rolex sports models and rubber-strapped watches that can withstand the rigors of professional cooking.

The conversation evolves into a deeper exploration of hospitality, precision, and the pursuit of excellence. Chef Keller draws compelling parallels between watchmaking and fine dining, emphasizing that both crafts require a balance between technological precision and human artistry. He shares his philosophy that success isn't measured by fame or fortune, but by creating lasting memories for guests. Throughout the discussion, he stresses the importance of supporting the entire ecosystem of restaurants—from farmers and suppliers like butter maker Diane St. Clair to the staff members who make each service possible. He recounts the famous "green tape moment" at Per Se, where a simple act of cutting tape with scissors rather than tearing it became a symbol of continuous improvement and attention to detail.

In the episode's closing segment, Chef Keller addresses the challenges facing the restaurant industry during COVID-19, emphasizing that restaurants are the largest private employer in America with over 16 million workers. He encourages listeners to support restaurants not just through takeout orders, but by advocating to political leaders and contributing to relief funds. The episode also features a mid-show segment with Zenith CEO Julian Tornare and Product Development Director Romain Marietta discussing the brand's latest innovations, including the Defy Classic Carbon and Pilot Type 20 Blueprint.

Chef Keller's insights reveal a deep commitment to generosity, mentorship, and elevating others while maintaining exacting standards. His approach to both cooking and collecting watches centers on the idea that luxury is fundamentally about precision, and that the smallest improvements—whether cutting tape with scissors or refining how salmon is processed—can have the most profound impact on the overall experience.

Transcript

Speaker
Chef Thomas Keller There used to be a charge for bread and butter in a restaurant. If you wanted to have bread and butter, you paid for it. And then at that point it became, you know, just part of the process, right? So it wasn't satisfying anymore. And when you eat a beautiful piece of bread with with with beautiful butter it's like it touches us is in so many emotional ways the aromas the the sound the the textures you know all these different things that go on with just a piece of bread and butter
Steven Pulvirent Hey everybody, I'm your host Steven Polverin and this is Hodinky Radio. Despite the fact that he's known as a watch lover among other collectors, and the fact that he's been one of the most famous chefs in the world for the better part of three decades, Chef Thomas Keller isn't out there flawing his watch collection every day. In fact, I've known that he's a watch collector for probably eight or nine years now, but before last week, I don't think I could have named more than one or two of his watches. When I saw that he'd just dropped a new cookbook, his first in 10 years, I figured it was time we fixed that. So last week, Chef was kind enough to chat with me from his iconic Yauntville, California restaurant, the French Laundry, and while we started out talking about why a Rolex is always a good choice in the kitchen and the pieces that he wears to remember certain milestones from a simple Beaumont Mercier to a Vacheron Constantin overseas, our conversation pretty quickly got more philosophical. Chef's new book, The French Laundry Per se, is full of recipes, but it's also full of Keller's ruminations on what it means to be in a hospitality-focused business. It's about the relationships between luxury and precision, and how the smallest changes can sometimes make the biggest impact. We also get into the relationships he has with his suppliers and what you're really supporting when you have dinner at restaurants like his. From our hour together, I can tell that Chef Keller is that rare combination of someone deeply committed to generosity and elevating others, while also having a no BS results driven approach to what he does. I love those kinds of people. So without further ado, let's do this This week's episode is presented by Zenith. Stay tuned later in the show to hear my conversation about the brand's latest novelties with CEO Julian Tornare and product development and heritage director Roma Marietta. You can also visit ZenethWatches.com for more
Chef Thomas Keller . Chef, thank you so much for joining us. Steven, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me on. It's uh it's it's a great uh kind of departure from my normal day. So so thank you. And I'm able to actually look at some of my watches, which I don't always look at um
Steven Pulvirent day to day. So it's kinda nice. I I mean let's let's just start with watches. I mean you've you've been sort of a known watch guy, I would say, in the watch community for for years, you know, when we're talking about you know, chefs and and other sort of like public figures, let's say, who are into watches. Your name seems to come up time and time again. But at the same time, you're not one of those folks who's sort of like overexposed and like pictures of your collection are everywhere. So I I kind of want to start at at the basics and ask how you how you got into watches in the first place. Well, you know the watches have all have always been
Chef Thomas Keller part of my life. I mean, you know, I I'm of that generation where if you want to know what time it was, you had to look at your wrist. It wasn't like you picked up your iPhone. And so for me, it's it's always been um that form of um I guess not only practical purpose, knowing what time it is, but also a sense of style if, you will. I don't wear jewelry, so you know it was the watch that was the prominent piece of jewelry or you know that, was on on my wrist and I've always enjoyed them uh immensely and you know been collecting them for a long time. I think my first collection started with um with with with the Seiko um which was the museum of modern art piece that they had and then uh and swatch was a was a big part of my life because they were great in the kitchen, right? They they last a long time, they're very durable, and they were they were inexpensive. And then I started graduating to, you know, a more refined watches. Um my f one of my first watches was a Beaumont CA um FCA, which was a wonderful watch. I bought that on the anniversary of opening, you know, the French Hanner 26 years ago. Um that was kind of my beginning of watches of really kind of collecting um that I don't want to say expensive watches, but that range of watches which uh are not only stylistic um but also uh great brands, great designs, um and they have they have uh not only just uh a value in in in the watch itself, uh but a value to me because there's always about a moment um when I'm celebrating something, whether it's a Christmas, whether it's a birthday, whether it's an anniversary, um, where you know you can have the liberty and feel good about spending some money on something that um that continues to remind
Steven Pulvirent you of a special moment in your life. Yeah, that's I I I think that's really great. The idea that these things they they don't just mark sort of the minutes and hours day to day, but they mark the the sort of longer arc of our of our lives. And you know, uh that that Beauma Mercier is is that a watch you still wear and sort of, you know, look at and fondly remember the early days of the f of the French laundry? Yeah, it it i it is. You know,
Chef Thomas Keller um I I love the word it's it's it's a smaller dial than than we typically wear today, right? Um but it's still it's still a wonderful elegant simple watch. I like simplicity in my watches. So you know this one represented you know a style
Steven Pulvirent and simplicity that I liked. And and are there other key milestones over the years that for you were like no-brainer moments to mark with a watch where like the moment you saw it on the horizon you said like all right, we gotta start finding a watch to kind of mark this occasion? Yeah. So the the twenty-fifth anniversary of the F
Chef Thomas Keller rench Rani, for example, um uh Vach Ran is is one of my favorite brands. And so, you know, they they have this wonderful um overseas. And uh and and the blue in the dial um was the same color as the blue that represents the French laundry. And so I, you know, I was able to buy um one not just for myself, but one for Laura to mark the 25th anniversary of the French laundry. Um so that that you know those are those watches that that mark those those anniversaries uh for us at the French laundry
Steven Pulvirent . Yeah Vascheron I think is is a really interesting brand for things like this and specifically the overseas, because you know, you you mentioned it with swatch, but like you're you're a chef, you're in the kitchen, you're using your hands, you need something that even if it's gonna be beautiful, it also has to be durable. And I wonder over the years, have you found that like certain watches really work in the kitchen and some watches really just just don't, no matter how much you might like them? Yeah, there there's two watches
Chef Thomas Keller that work. I mean, you know, obviously the the the leather bands, I I have a Panorai 1936, right? The replica of the nineteen thirty six when they launched this, I think in two thousand six. Um they made nineteen thirty-six of them. Of course, the leather band doesn't really work well in a kitchen. Um any anything that's that's metal, stainless steel, you know, and that's why you know Rolex is something I that I enjoy wearing a lot. But also there are two two which I like this: the the PatTec um uh knollus with the uh with the rubber band um is a great watch for the kitchen as well as this Daytona um from uh from from Rolex um that has that has the the rubber band uh and they're really, really comfortable in a kitchen. And uh and and because of the the nature of the material, you know, they obviously they're not scratching, they're very easy to clean. So those are two, you know, two types of watches that that um um with those types of bands that really work out, it you know kind of harkens back to the the days of the swatch and and those and those rubber bands
Steven Pulvirent . Yeah. I mean you you already mentioned simplicity as a thing you you enjoy and uh we'll talk about that a little more when we talk about your cookbook and your restaurants. But are there other sort of like stylistic or design principles that when you're looking at a watch are the first things you sort of either gravitate towards or that kind of like put you off of a of a particular watch
Chef Thomas Keller ? Um you know complexity is always something. So the I I'm fortunate to have two Daytonas and of course they're more complex than than some of the other watches that I have. You know the, the the the pet tech novelist is a little more complex than than than the other than the other PETTEC that I have. So I I kind of gravitate to ones I can look at quickly, understand what time it is, because that's really the most important thing to me is is is really the time. You know the the the most of them come with the with the dates that's almost irrelevant to me because every day is almost the same you know in terms of where I'm going or where I'm gonna be um and there's plenty of ways to to understand what the date is if I just look around the kitchen you know there's lots of things with the date on it um but yeah the the the simplicity watch the easy to read watches the ones that are durable um the ones that you know are are easy easy to clean if I'm in certainly if I'm in the kitchen. Um and also, you know, ones that, you know, that really you can dress up or dress down, right? The simplicity of a watch, um whether it was the the the bone or or you know or the patek or the or the vashran, you know they're easy with the stainless steel bands where they dress up or dress down
Steven Pulvirent . Yeah. The idea of dressing dressing up and dressing down intrigues me, especially in the context of of the French laundry. Uh uh, you know, reading through the cookbook, which again we're we're gonna dive deep into, but you you tell the story of of when you change the dress code to allow for jeans. Uh and and this idea of comfort and and the balance between sort of elevated experiences and also comfort and being able to enjoy things. And I I wonder how you think about that more broadly and then how it may or may not maybe connect to to your love of watches. Well, you know, I think there's there
Chef Thomas Keller there is this you we have to respect that, you know, evolution is part of day-to-day life and we have to embrace evolution um in a way that helps that helps all of us, right? And if we're talking about the restaurant in that sense, we're talking about all of us, have a have a sense of comfort and more importantly, um be able to have fun, right? I don't want to I don't want to have expectations put on our guest, um, that creates some type of um intimidation or or or some type of effort that they have to make that they don't normally make. Yes, you know, some people love to get dressed up to go to Perse or the French Laundrie, but also some people just want to come casually. And and and and there there lies that you know either dressing it up or dressing it down and and and watches really add to that sense of style, especially for a man, um as many men, it's the the only piece of jewelry that they have uh is their watch and maybe their their their wedding band. But but it's it's about comfort and about having fun. And so that's what we're really stressing the most uh in our restaurant is the sense of of not fine dining as much as fun dining. And and that comes with somebody being comforta
Steven Pulvirent ble. You can't have fun unless you're comfortable. Yeah, it's a thing we we deal with all the time in the in the watch industry, which is is governed largely by, you know, sort of codes of what it means for something to be like quote unquote luxury that are in some cases hundreds of years old and slow to adapt and and all of those things. And I I think whether it's it's watches or whether it's fine dining or whether it's you know handmade furniture or any any number of other things, things have to have to evolve. Like you said, things have to move. They have to the m to move with us as opposed to against us. And I I wonder how you you think about that as, you know, the French laundry now is is mul multiple decades old. And how you think about trying to continue pushing it forward and evolvinging and grow and having that be a part of fine dining or fun dining, as you just said. Yeah, it's a it's a generational thing.
Chef Thomas Keller Um and uh as you know, and and certainly watches are are definitely generational timepieces. I mean, you know, the the pass on from one generation to the next, they're they're held with with with a sense of of um of identity, right? sense of this um opportunity to give somebody that's close to you um or for them to have your watches or one of your watches after after you leave and and that to me i i used to have my father's uh military watch and that's really one of those watches that I hold extremely dear to me. So you know the these are heirlooms that um that continue to pass on. With with with fine dininging, what we're try to refund dining, what we're trying to do is also understand that it's a generational passage. And we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. And you know, there are there are generations of chefs in restaurateurs that I've always looked to as icons, as role models, even though some of them have long passed. They still left a strong impression on me and certainly a a strong uh imprint on on our profession and the generations that followed them. And so our our job, right, our responsibility is to make sure that that our shoulders are strong enough for those who are coming after us for the future generations to stand on our shoulders and do better than we did. And that's really a wonderful, it's a wonderful responsibility to have. I I'm now looking at three generations beyond me that you know um are part of our profession now, right? If I I was fortunate to be you know the first generation of American chefs, right, to own their own restaurant. And that was that was an extraordinary opportunity. That was an extraordinary realization, right? That you can actually own your own restaurant. I mean, up until then, you know, there wasn't really a culinary culture in America. It just it had been rekindled in the early 70s. And you look at that and and and how how our country has now become a a respected um culinary culture, culinary profession, not just with chefs, not just with restaurants, but our wine, our wineries, our wine, our wine-growing regions, the wines we produce. And then just think about the food that we have today. It's so much better than when I was a young person. And it's all because of chefs. Chefs continue to drive what our consumers eat, what our farmers grow, how we interpret food, the importance of nutrition, the importance of sourcing food, all these things which which really drive us and and move us forward in that evolutionary process. But to be able to hire, train and mentor the next generations of young of young of young people, not just chefs, because we all know that restaurants are made up of not just chefs but but dining room staff and and and winery and wine staff and and and managers and administrators and and gardeners and i mean it's just goes on and on and so we have that opportunity to change and to elevate the standards of our profession and that's our responsibility. And those our shoulders have to be strong enough to be able to endure that and set the example um that is going to continue to evolve to a better place the next generations.
Steven Pulvirent Yeah. Yeah, I I I love that. And I I I love how fundamental that outlook seems to be with with everything you do. I mean, even like you you just look at the the title page of of the book, which is called The French Laundry Per Se. Uh it was published by Artisan. It came out in October. Uh we'll link in the show notes so that people can go can go find it. But um you're you're not the only author. Uh you're you're you have co-authors. You have David Breedon, you have Corey Chow, you have Elwyn Boyles, and then uh Susie Heller and Michael Rolman contributed as well. And your your choice to not have those people have their names on, you know, little individual sections buried in the book, but really to be at the forefront is is a deliberate one. And it's frankly, you know, not trying to butter you up here, but like it's frankly a decision that many people wouldn't make. I mean it's it's a sort of like anti ego decision. And I I wonder why you made that choice and and sort of how you think about that fitting into to what we just talked about. Yeah, and thank you for asking that question. It's an
Chef Thomas Keller important question. And you know what we always talk about, you mentioned the word ego. And we have to realize that, you know, as a as a true team member, you have to leave your ego at the door, right? We we come into our restaurants and regardless of again the department that you're working in, uh, it's not about ego. It's about it's about a team effort um to give our guests uh a great experience and ourselves at the same time. You know, we we want to be a little selfish in this in this process and we want to have a great time too. And so, you know, to be able to to establish that kind of environment. Um uh Really dictates to us that ego is not part of what we need to do in our in our restaurants. But the point, the the point of trying to establish this moment in time, right? Because cookbooks are a moment in time. So the French Howdy Cookbook was written in 1996, spring, summer, fall of 1996, and published in 1998. It was a moment in time, those three that those three seasons. Um when we wrote that book. And those were the those were the dishes, the compositions, the techniques, the skills that we had when we wrote that book. I wanted to make sure that was the easy part because again that was a collaborative effort with the different chefs that were in the kitchen with me. Whether there's Mark Hopper, Stephen Durfee. I mean there was still a lot of people involved in that book as there are in anybody's book, right? Anybody's cookbook at least. Um so it it it was at the time the only book that I was ever going to write. I had no ambitions to write another book. That was the Frenchani cookbook. I was able to tell some great stories, the importance of of Hollanday sauce, bringing in our our our partners or suppliers as some people would call them, people like you know, Connie Green, uh Ingrid Benges, uh, Keith Martin, you know, extraordinary farmers and fishermen and gardeners and foragers around the country who really make up that supply chain for us, right? Which is such an important part that most people don't realize the hundreds of people that are involved uh in supplying a restaurant. I mean it's extraordinary. Um and so that was the that was the book. I I wasn't gonna write another one, but it was very successful. And of course, with anything that's successful, um the your your publisher, your editor uh wants to write another one. And and I really resisted for for quite some time. And then I woke up one morning and I realized that I may be being a little selfish and maybe irresponsible to the request, right? To the opportunity to write a second cookbook. I had I had Bouchon restaurant here in Yantville. Uh Jeffrey Circiello was the chef. Um he was an extraordinary young chef at the time and of course he still is a little older today. But I I thought, why not let them write a cookbook? Let them write a cookbook based on what we're doing at Bouchon, these classic French techniques and compositions of Bouchon. And so I passed it on to them. Of course, I I was, you know, part of that process as well. I was part of that team as well, bringing back Susie as the producer, Michael Ruhlman as the writer, and Deborah Jones as the photographer, and of course, you know, Anne Brampson was still our editor at Artisan. And you know, when I scribed in that book, um, you know, when someone asked me to sign it for them, citation, it's I write, it's all about sharing. And that was it. It was me having the opportunity to write a book and then and then really sharing that opportunity with with the team at Bouchon at the time. And so that began this idea of allowing others to really impart their skill, their knowledge, their expertise, you know, with oversight of this great team that we put together with the French Henry Cookbook. And then we wrote Under Pressure with Jonathan Beno and Corey Lee. And at the time Ellen Elwin Boyles at the time was part of that as well. He was our Patriot Chef of Per se at the time. As well as the other the cast of characters which are still around. They're our great team. And then we wrote ad hoc, ad hoc at home, with David Cruz and the team at ad hoc. And then we wrote Bouchon Bakery with Sebastian Rooksell and the team at Bouchon Bakery. So it was easy to it's been easy for me all along to embrace others in this process because it's only natural. And and it it they are part of it. They are part of our restaurants. They're bakery., The theyy're part of our lives. They have they have so much to offer. And one of my jobs, one of my duties is to allow them to offer those things. And so the French Rani per se is really about those two restaurants and you know how one began and how that one bore the other one and how they became siblings at one point and sharing repertoire, sharing ideas, um, sharing competitiveness um and and ultimately sharing individuals um and and we share every day between the two restaurants uh we see every day you know per se and per se every day sees French laundry and it's just this wonderful, you know, relationship between these two restaurants. And so we think about the evolution of dining and the evolution of fine dining in America. And I talk about that in in this book and how important that is. But the significance of this is that there are two restaurants that are critically acclaimed, some of the best restaurants in the country and some of the best restaurants in the world, that are not just that are not just about me. They're about the teams that have been there. You know, Eric Zebold, the first chef of guisine, you know, Corey Lee, Timothy Hollingsworth, Jonathan Benno. I mean, the names go on. And I'm just talking about the kitchen, and you're talking about Bobby Stuckey or Paul Roberts and the wine team, of course, Laura Cunningham, who established this sense of comfort and ease in the service, which has become so so much of a cornerstone of the French Dawning and per se and other other fine dining restaurants as well. She was the youngest woman ever to want to run a four-star restaurant, a three-star mission restaurant. It's extraordinary. And so this restaurant has not only left an imprint on all of those as well as all of those leaving an imprint on the restaurant, but how how these two restaurants coming together have established a paradigm for uh uh for other restaurants to to look to as an example of how to achieve um I don't want to say greatness, but how to how to achieve success um at the same time evolve
Steven Pulvirent . You you mentioned wanting to hold back and not wanting to do another cookbook, and then you did, and you did a few, and you worked on a few with your teams. And then there was another sort of sort of stop, another sort of pause, and it's been basically a decade since the last cookbook. And I wonder why why now? Like what made now feel right to you and why this project right now? Because you obviously had many options of things you you could have done
Chef Thomas Keller . Yeah. Well we started talking about this book as a 25th anniversary book for the French Lombie, but we never really were able to mobilize and and get the teams together to do that. You know, there we're running we're we run restaurants. I mean let's face it. I mean every day, you know, we go in with our with our list from the night before and we work to to open the restaurant. I mean that's our focus every day. You know, there are literally sixty people ory 70 people every da at French audience at per se, whose sole purpose that day is to get ready for that five o'clock or that five feeding guest arrival. And that's it. And then you go through service in the end of the night, you make your list for tomorrow and you come in the next day and you do the same thing. And that has to be our goal. Our our our guests, you know, are part of part of the most or let me say the the guests are are some of the most important part of the equation, right? Our s are our partners who are suppliers. We want to make sure that we're being responsible to them, you know, and giving them the support that they need to continue with their lifestyles. I mean, I just a quick story about uh about Diane St. Clair when she raised the price of her butter a decade ago to me and she wanted to explain why. And I I I said, okay, I mean we're not really gonna argue over fifty cents a pound or whatever it was. She said,, No I want to tell you why my son has been accepted in NYU and I need to pay for his tuition. Now how what do you say to that? I mean, this is the impact that you have as a guest going into a restaurant. You send you send a child to to to to NYU, right, to become better educated and become part of part of a culture and part of a society and make a difference. That's what happens when in restaurants over and over again. So it was really it really began, you know, prior to our twenty fifth anniversary in nineteen or sorry two thousand and nineteen um and and we got a little late start but we got a late start and we we got it accomplished and uh and it was it was it was good. It's it timing is I don't and how important things are now and how we become so much more grateful for those around us and those who work with us and how we much support them. I mean it really is about supporting um the this infrastructure that is about really about nourishment, right? I mean I we have to be protect those individuals that nourish us and they nourish us with the products. And I can't emphasize that enough. We put this into our bodies. We want to make sure that we're putting in our bodies is coming from a place that operates with integrity, uh, that operates with honesty, that operates with a sense of responsibility um to nourish those who eat their fo
Steven Pulvirent od. Yeah. I I love it. I mean reading through the book, the story of of Diane and and her butter really stood out to me. And it's something I I I noted down as something I wanted to talk about. And you you already hit on the the personal aspect of it, but the the way that the story is framed in the book is part of a section about bread and butter uh and about taking bread and butter seriously not as as an accoutrement or as something, you know, you do sort of pro forma, but as as a course in and of itself. Uh and that attention to detail both in the product and in the people is something that I think is evident throughout everything you do and everything you're talking about in the book. And I wonder how you approach things with that level of you know, seriousness is maybe the wrong word, but that level of of interest and sincerity and and precision while also keeping it sort of like human and and relatable and uh something that can be fun instead of something that can only be sort of like you know in the narrows and very scholarly and serious. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it it it's fascin
Chef Thomas Keller ating with the whole the whole the ideal about bread and butter in restaurants because you know prior to the 60s or sometime in the 60s neither one of us really remember because we didn't I I certainly wasn't going out to dinner at the time and I don't think you were around at the time. There used to be a there used to be a charge for bread and butter in a restaurant. If you wanted to have bread and butter, you paid for it. And then at that point it became, you know, just part of the process, right? So everybody just started receiving bread and butter, right? For no charge. I'm sure somebody started it to create more value and attract more guests to their restaurant because they didn't charge for bread and butter. And it just kind of became like this this afterthought, right? And and in many, in many ways the butter wasn't good, the bread wasn't good. And so it wasn't satisfying anymore. It didn't have that that compelling, you know, as and when you eat a beautiful piece of bread with with with beautiful butter it's like you know that in a in of itself is almost a meal right it it's such a satisfying experience it touches us is in so many emotional ways the aromas the the sound the the textures, um, you know, all these different things that go on with just a piece of bread and butter. And so, you know, we have here, you know, at Bouchon Bakery at what I believe is one of the best bakers in in in the country. And um, you know, we we always think about chefs, right? You always think, well, this Thomas Keller or Daniel Balut or John George Von der Richten or whoever, right? We're always talking about the chef. Uh and and I want to try I I'm not trying to deflect, you know, the attention to me, but I'm just trying to make people aware that it's not about the chef. It's about everybody that's on the team and the importance of what they do. Um, I I don't, I'm not a baker. You know, put me in in in in the kitchen at Bouchon Bakery and ask me to make make make a loaf of bread, forget about it. You know, so I wanted to bring attention to to Francois and the quality of work that he does and the dedication that he does and and in in in a such an art uh artisanal way. I mean he's dealing with flour, water, salt, and yeast, and then the environment, which changes every day. And so he's trying to produce this this consistent be,autiful bread for us to enjoy. And at the Frenchani for years, for over two decades, you know, we had this beautiful array of bread in a basket that would be served to you and you would choose one or two pieces and you would get two different kinds of butter and it it was it was single you know because it was it was quality and and Francois or or or or or or um um or the baker previous to him, Matthew, were really artisans and craftsmen and really made beautiful bread. And we had Diane St. Close butter, and we had a butter that was made here in Sonoma as well. And so we used those butters with the bread. But it it didn't a focal point for people and I wanted to make that. I wanted to represent Francois as part of the team. I wanted to represent Diane again as as as part of our partnership and part of the importance of supporting somebody like that. The story I just told about her son. And so it became obvious, right? The obvious way to do that is to have a bread and butter course
Steven Pulvirent . This week's episode is presented by Zenith. I had the opportunity last week to sit down with CEO Julian Tornare and Product Development and Heritage Director Roma Marietta to chat about the brand's latest novelties, including the Defy Classic Carbon, the Pilot Type 20 Blueprint, as well as get a little sneak peek as to what's to come in 2021. So direct from Switzerland, here are Julian and Roman. Thank you both so much for joining us. It's uh it's good to have you both here uh on the show with us. Hi Steven, how are you? Thank you, Steven. The first thing I want to talk about is is the DeFi classic carbon. People may know, yeah, carbon fibers used in watches, but never quite like this. Can you kind of start off by just giving us a basic overview of what the DeFi classic carbon is and why
Julian Tornare (Zenith CEO) Sure, you know DeFi for us has been an amazing uh product line for the last three years. The contemporary expression of Zenit and we wanted something new in terms of material. So we we came we went from our DeFi classic and we said let's do it in a material that we have never used in such a way, meaning every single element in carbon as well as the bracelet.
Romain Marietta (Zenith Product Development and Heritage Director) Well the the the challenge for us was to integrate this uh this request from Julien and to to develop uh something very technical because it's something that we we haven't done in the past. I mean it was the first uh the first ever for us to to to introduce and to work on a full carbon uh uh watch and especially the bracelet so we it was quite a uh I would say a dive into the unknown for for us uh and at the end uh it ended with a super cool and super light uh product and just uh keep the the the idea of the DeFi classic which is a three hands watch with the elite mov
Steven Pulvirent ement. You know we're used to seeing carbon in watch cases on bezels, those sorts of things. But this watch is really, you know, as as we've said, is is carbon everywhere. Like anything that can be carbon is carbon. And and I wonder what from your perspectives is appealing about carbon as a material, you know, for the end consumer, what are the things that they'll actually experience on a day-to-day basis that make this material so interesting and special for a watch case and a watch bracelet
Julian Tornare (Zenith CEO) . In that particular case, I see two main differences. The first one is the lightness. The watch is really impressive when you put it on your wrist. And then in terms of look, and I was the one challenging Ramen on that, I wasn't really sure. You have kind of a camouflage uh look uh of this this carbon treatment, which makes it really really nice to have on your wrist. So I think it's it makes it so different from every other thing we have. Um we have
Romain Marietta (Zenith Product Development and Heritage Director) to educate also our audience, uh especially in the DeFi collection, which is contemporary, and targeting uh younger uh clientels, that we are able to do such uh technical uh
Steven Pulvirent There are so many things about this watch, especially as you, you know kind of, dig down into the details that make it interesting. But there are other novelties that have come out recently that I want to make sure we get a chance to touch on. And two of them are the pilot type 20 blueprint and the El Primero Chronomaster Revival Liberty, which we've spoken about a little bit before. You know, the Type 20 is a it's a classic tool watch. It's really a sort of no-nonsense watch. And this is a really conceptual execution. And I wonder what drew you to that idea and then also if there are any specific details on that piece that you want to draw people's attention to because I I think it's a watch that in my experience the more I look at it the more I find intriguing about it. What is really interesting with the bluepr
Romain Marietta (Zenith Product Development and Heritage Director) int uh dial especially is that nobody has ever uh I would say recreate or show on the front face of a watch uh technical indication that you find normally on the technical plans and drawings from our suppliers, from the the the dial suppliers, the dial manufacturer. We found uh some blueprints of the architecture of the the buildings of the manufacturer and uh when we saw these these uh these plans these technical plans we thought it could be very interesting to uh to implement it in the pilots the the the the way you can obtain this is to work on a multi-layer dial and that's what we have been uh creating which gives the idea and the feelings that all the markings uh and uh and uh and numerals are flying above the the dial which of course make the the the link with the the pil
Steven Pulvirent ot I I wonder, are you able to offer us any kind of uh sneak peek uh at what we might be able to look forward to from Zenith uh in the next few months and and maybe even the next year? Uh yes
Julian Tornare (Zenith CEO) , yes, we could. Twenty twenty-one is definitely the year for Chronomaster. There will be new things coming, uh, some referring to the very classic uh design of 1969, some uh a bit more modern, a bit more contemporary, giving a spirit that existed at Zenit, but uh in a slightly different way, and of course continue to capitalize with watches that became icons. Uh, and I'm talking about A3, A4, A3, 85, and others. So that's gonna be an amazing year uh for Zenith and we are all very uh very excited about that
Steven Pulvirent . That's great. I I think uh sounds like there's a lot to look forward to and thank you both for joining us. This has been a lot of fun. Uh, I'm glad to hear things are going well over in Switzerland and that we have uh a lot to look forward to from Zenith over the coming months. Thank you very much, Steven. Thank you, Steven. Stay safe. Thank you so much to Julian and Roman for joining us and for sharing a little bit of insight into the latest novelties from Zenith. If you want to learn more, visit zenith watches.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. I in in framing everything you do, you know, I I was I was trying to think of of a metaphor or an analogy of of oh okay, is is a restaurant uh and and are a chef uh is it a symphony and you're a composer? Is it uh painting and you're the painter? Like what is the sort of analogy that we can draw? And I I kept coming up blank and I think for a good reason. I think I finally figured it out, which is is that you know a a painter takes paint which is, made still something made by somebody, and they make their own thing. But the end consumer doesn't really get any sort of experience if they just go to the store and buy that tube of paint, no matter how good it is. In the same way that someone who's not a trained musician can go buy the world's finest violin and it doesn't matter if there's not someone to play it and a beautiful thing for them to play. Whereas on a certain level, you know, the the products that you're getting, whether it's Diane's butter or whether it's produced from someone or meat from a really fabulous farm, those are products that in their own way are sort of a a completed piece of art in some way, but then you're taking them and doing something new. You're almost sort of like remixing all of this stuff. And I I wonder how you think about that in terms of you're dealing with these products that already have a a wonderful sort of amount of love and craft put into them. You have your team who is also helping you make these things. It's not just you. And yet, like what the guest wants to come away with is to some extent, like they want a Thomas Keller meal. Like they want something that still has your fingerprints on it. And I wonder how you balance that as you're trying to to sort of be respectful on both ends of that equation. Wow. What a
Chef Thomas Keller well said, well asked. Very difficult question to answer. But I certainly will do my my best. I mean, you know, you talked about, you know, a an artist uh a And that sense of awareness that you have of what's going on and those around you and how how um beautifully that dance can happen uh and happen every night um and that dance could be at a moment when there is um a heightened energy uh in the restaurant because the amount of guests that are there or who's there. There's all these every every day is different. But it's still the dance. And it's really, really beautiful to watch it, to watch people and young people who may not have the experience that's that some of some of the veterans have in that dance, but how they become you know part of that choreography and that movement and and they can move through spaces without touching anybody uh and with elegance uh and sophistication and it's really a beautiful thing to watch um and so that's kind of what what we what we do is is this dance. Um, but in a way of um uh and I am blanking on the the name of the the the was it Alvin ailey the who did the free form dance right somebody like that right who is who has evolved dance to a place where it's it's it's much it's much more spontaneous if you will uh and I think that's what's what's the beautiful thing about a restaurant is the dance. The ingredients, as you, as you spoke about, yes, they are extremely important. Cooking for everybody who who's listening, it's a very simple equation. Uh it's about ingredients and execution. And uh you know, our our our job is to make sure that we get the best ingredients available. People always say, I you know, I want my pea soup to take like to taste like your pea soup. And I said, Well, that's probably not gonna happen because you can't get the same peas that I can get. You know, but you know, that's and what I'm saying there is make sure that when you're buying the ingredients for the pea soups, you're not just going out and buying any peas, you're actually tasting them, uh, you're analyzing them for for for flavors, right? Um, and and if if you can't find anything fresh, then buy frozen because frozen peas in many times have been picked at that height of flavor uh and will work as well. But the point being is that you know the ingredients that we receive or sometimes some of the most extraordinary ingredients in in available to anybody and and many times rare in small supply. Diane St. Clair and Butter we talked about is a perfect example of that. She doesn't make a lot. S hashe eight cows. How much butter can she make? She's one woman. I mean, she works seven days a week. Um and she can only make so much butter. So you're really not gonna be able to buy Diane Saint-Clair's butter, but doesn't mean there's somebody close by you that has a dairy farm that sells butter that you can buy um and and support them. But but our job as as as cooks is to um Is to really I don't want to say process because processes sound well our our job is to um take these wonderful ingredients and elevate uh the flavors that are possible from these ingredients with with things like salt or things like acid or or or things like grilling or simple techniques that are are available to us and available to everybody. And make sure that we don't complicate them, that we don't over over over overthink the whole process of cooking and be respectful to the ingredients, always be as respectful to the ingredients and those who bring it to us. And so we we that's what we talk about. And that's what we try to do is to heighten the flavor profiles of the ingredients we receive from the extraordinary people that supply them to us, give them to our guests in a way that they are gonna they're gonna experience that and understand what a pea tastes like or or or what a strawberry tastes like or what a beautiful piece of beef or lamb tastes like
Steven Pulvirent . Yeah, I I I I love the idea that you you sort of have to get from point A to point B and there's there's different ways to do that, but you always know kind of what that end goal is and what that that guiding light is. And I I wonder for that that process in the middle, that that space in between point A and point B, you know, this is where I think there's actually a a really sort of close connection between what you do and and watchmaking and other sorts of um things that anything we could sort of describe as as craftsmanship of one kind or another, is there's a sort of fetishization of of doing things by hand and the old fashioned way and you know we could analyze why that is but one one of the recipes you discuss in the book is is the cornet the the cone with the the salmon in it for people who don't who don't know and you should you should read this story in the book. It's it's really incredible. But um one of the things you talk about is how you've you've changed as the restaurant has grown how you process the salmon. And it's gone from hand chopping it with a knife and picking the sinews out by hand to using not an industrialized process, but using like modern machines and equipment so that you can do it better faster. And you know, I think there's there would be a certain old way of looking at things that might say like, Oh, well you you lose something when there's not the hand or you lose something by using these modern techniques. And yeah. I wonder your thoughts on that and how you balance whatever your thoughts are on that with ultimately delivering the best thing to the to the guest and to the customer
Chef Thomas Keller . Yeah, it's a good question. And you think about that in so many different ways. But you know, for us, it's a sense of refinement. You know, this is what we were doing. We talked about, you know, the tools of refinement in in the French Army Cookbook 20s, whenever 24 years, 22 years ago. And it's it's it hasn't changed. We're always looking for that sense of refinement. So yes, you know, hand chopping the salmon, right? Um pulling out the sinew um to to putting it through a grinder um and then putting it through a tank, right? So it's a sense of refinement. But it's also, you know, when you think about the process so what is the most respectful way to take care of the salmon right the ingredient that we're talking about when you're hand chopping it it takes quite a while so the the the temperature of the uh of the products is is is being elevated, right? So you're you when the temperature elevates you start to diminish the quality and the freshness of that right in the in the salmon. We're not cooking it, we're just having it out you know on the table, so we're we're hand chopping it. We want to make sure that we keep it as as fresh and as lively uh flavors as we possibly can. So now when we grind it, we can grind it super cold and it goes very quickly and it stays super cold. Our grinders are cold or our our protein is cold we're in a cold room right so we didn't have cold room back then now we have a we have a cold room we pass it through a tammy it's all done in in 10 or 15 minutes as opposed to 30 to forty five minutes. Um and so that's part of the process is is we've we we refine the process to produce a better result. And that's what we're always trying to do is to try to find a better result. Um so so that that's that's evolution. That's that's paying attention and being aware of what you're doing and trying to think about how can I do this better? You know, that's one of our fundamental goals. Is every day we want to come in with the idea of how can we improve ourselves, how can we improve what we're doing? How can we improve the experience? And it it can be something really small. And when you when you talk about the salmon and the evolution of chopping the salmon to grinding the salmon, it's relatively small, you know, when you think about it, but the result is quite large. I mean, take the green tape. Um, you know, in the first decade of the French laundry, the green tape that we always tape down the past with or label things, but was always torn, right? We tore the green tape and wrote on it. Um I mean, intelligent people coming through the restaurant, the Grant Atkins is of the world, the Mark Hopper's of the world, the Jonathan Benno is of the world, the Stephen Durfee's of the of the world, the Eric Zebol is of the world. I mean everybody tore the green tape for an entire decade until we opened Perse. And I and I and I explained to the team that was going to Per se to help inoculate the new team there with their culture and philosophy and repertoire, I I I had a little meeting with them. I said I want you to go to New York and think about ways that you can make improvements so that when you're talking to these new team members, you're talking in a way of of of of of evolution, of of teaching them a better way than we even do with the French honorary. And Zion Cruel, who is the expediter on that uh on that that uh that Noah's Ark of people that went to the to to per se. The first day he was taping down the pass, he picked up a pair of scissors and cut the green tape. And you would think the world ended. I mean there was not a sound in the entire restaurant. And everybody just looked at him and they're like, what did you just do? And from that, from that moment, from that moment on, in all the restaurants that we had, um, you know, people put a pair of scissors with the green tape. Now, how easy was that to make a small improvement that impacted everybody that worked for our restaurants and those who who now see what we do as an example
Steven Pulvirent ? Yeah, and and you know, the the green tape moment was one of my favorite moments from the book. I'm gonna I promise I will be driving everyone in my life absolutely crazy talking about green tape moments for the next uh six to twelve months. So I I apologize in advance to everyone who's gonna have to listen to me uh blabber on about that. But y you know, the the idea that that a small gesture of adding that extra level of of care and and precision speaks to to another thing you said in the book, which is that ultimately you think that that luxury and fine dining are about that. They're about precision. And and I wanted to see if you could elaborate on that a a little bit and give us a little more insight there. Yeah.
Chef Thomas Keller Yeah. You know, you know you, we know refinement, precision, um, it's it's a it's it's almost the same purpose and the same goal. Um we we we are continuously when you talk uh we talk about anything that's great. Um you wanna make sure that you can be consistent, right? Consistency is critical. I we all can can cook you come to my restaurant, I can cook you a meal that's gonna, you know, that's going to, you know, really impress you. That's going you're gonna you're gonna love it. Can I do that every night for a hundred people? Right? That that is the most important thing. Because we all know we can cook. We all know that we can impress people with what we do, with our ingredients, with our skills, with our knowledge, with our equipment, with our tools, with our plating, with our service, with our everything that we do. Um, but can we do it consistently? So that's what what we we''re alre alwawaysys striving for in our restaurants is to produce something over and over again. And if we can find the sense of precision in that. So just think about using an immersion circulator, uh which we don't uh let's not even think about using immersion circulator because that's a thing of the past for us as well. I mean that lasted for for us for maybe three years or four years, the idea of a pris of immersion circulator. And for those of you who don't know what it is, is emergency circulator, was a um uh uh more or less a heating device that was used in the uh medical world and it would keep a water bath at specific temperatures for for as long as the electricity was on. So we could we could put a piece of meat in a bag and and turn and and and dial in a temperature at sixty four degrees Celsius and put the bag in there and leave it in for 45 minutes and it would come out a perfect medium rare, right? So that every time you didn't need to have the the the saucier anymore, you know, using his skill, his knowledge, or his experience to cook a piece of meat medium rare. You had the ability to have a machine do that for you. Well, now those immersion circulators are gone. Now we have what are rationale ovens, which do the same thing and are much more versatile. And in so many different ways, we can use it for so many different things. So that's kind of taking the place of the merchant circulatory. With that said, it's interesting because what we also have to balance here, right? So we know we can be precise thinking anything, right? We have the tools and the equipment, we have the knowledge and the experience in terms of our our past experience with temperatures and times and these different things. We can do that. And that's not a problem. So consistency in that aspect is a given. But what have we lost in that way as well? And so we have to balance the the the the technology of precision with the idea that the skill level, right, of us as cooks, we are cooks and that's one of our jobs is to actually cook. And the pleasure of actually cooking, and this is something that that I always want to express to those at home, is it's it's a process. It's a process should that should be fun, that should be pleasurable. I love to cook. I love the action of cooking. So we don't want to give up this opportunity to not only teach and learn, but to to execute over and over again roasting you know a a loin of lamb um uh conventionally uh and and understanding when it's when when it's the perfect time to take it out of the oven so that after it rests, it's a perfect medium rare. And and and it's interesting because young chefs really love that. And as a young chef, I love that as well. So it's it's it's a sense of balancing and precision and and and skill and we have to make sure that we're that we're doing that correctly so that we can be consistent with with what we do. And I think watchmaking is the is the same way. There's a sense of of of automation if you, will, right, to be precise, but there's also this this wonderful craft of making and watch the same way, this craft of cooking. So I think they the the the the two professions really marry well together as they evolve, right? You can become more precise, right? Because of the the technology and equipment that you can employ you to become more precise. But the craftsmanship has to be there
Steven Pulvirent as well. Yeah, I I I really like that comparison because they they both ultimately focus on giving the guest something that that is good both in an objective sense and a subjective sense, right? It's it's about not just keeping the best time, but it's doing it in a way that brings someone pleasure. And in the same way, it's like you can cook a s, you know, I have had many, many a perfectly medium rare steak that are just like not that great or like it's not in a satisfying environment or whatever. And so you can do something well and still have it not like touch you. Like it it can it can be meaningless. And that that balance is really at the heart of everything you're doing, right? Is making sure that every person who leaves the French laundry or per se or any of your other restaurants leaves their feeling like this is this is a thing they're gonna hold on to in in some way, right? Yeah absolutely. Fo
Chef Thomas Keller od is all about an emotional connection. So we all live through the you know and again there there's evolution right in food and you can mark you can mark history with the different trends, I hate that we use the word trends, but the different movements. Let's call them movements. I mean Scoffier, you know, in the who who really Augustus Scoffier, who was one of the greatest chefs of ever time, you know, in the early nineteen hundreds, uh he formalized the brigade system, right? Which is the system that we use in the kitchen today. There's a chef, there's a sous chef, there's chef de partis, there are commis, you know, and and you knew when you walked into a kitchen in in his era, who the chef de cuisine was, who the head chef was, because his toque was the highest one. I mean, you can identify him right away. It's much like the military brigade. I mean you knew you know the general because he has stars on his shoulders. You know the colonel because he has a cluster, right? You know the lieutenant because he has a bar, you know, the captain because he has two bars, right? That's kind of the system that stuff he set up in a in in a in a kitchen brigade. Uh at the same time, he codified recipes, which no one had ever done before. Here's the way you make a Hollanday sauce. Here are the five mother sauces that all the other sauces are derived from. I mean he he codified everything that that happened in terms of of recipes in in a kitchen. We still use those classic recipes. 120 years later, we're still using uh Escoffier's recipes as a foundation for cooking. And it's very important to understand and learn those foundations. Again, same way in watchmaking, right? They're still using, you know, the same techniques and the same precision, same working environments they did back then. So the emotional, talk about the emotional connection to food, right? This is very, very important. And as I started to speak about, you have these different movements, right? As Gafier talked about Nouvelle Cuisine before there was ever Nouvelle Cuisine written about in the 70s, right? And then you start to realize that every generation has Nouvelle Cuisine. Every generation has Nouvelle Cuisine. Why? Because every generation has new fashion. Every generation has new music. Every generation has new art. It's an interpretation of what they learn from those who taught them, from those who mentored them. And this is this is a natural movement. It never was related to food in our country because food wasn't really that important in so many parts of our history. But as God Fay talked about Nouvelle Cuisine. So you can mark the different eras of of of culinary movement by these different by these different moments. And you you think about the the last one or well with that three three three three moments ago, um, in the intellectual food, right? This idea of a molecular gastronomy, um, which is more or less a media used for media purposes because they had to explain something in in in very short sentences. But the idea of molecular gastronomy uh as a movement, and and it's interesting because molecular gastronomy at the time, and of course it was really poorly named, but we'll we'll use that term because I think people would identify with it. Was an idea of intellectual food, right? You you you you went through a process, you had a strawberry, you dipped it in a in a in a powder, you chewed it for 20 seconds and then you you drink a liquid, right? And that was the experience with the strawberry. It was a new kind of experience. It was the experience that made you think about the powder, the strawberry and, the and and the liquid. And why did it make you think? Because you never had it before. So you were left with, not is this good or bad? You were left with, do I like it or not? Right? Whereas emotional cuisine, right? Puree of potatoes. We've all had puree potatoes many, many times in our lives. And we know when we have a good one and a bad one. And we know when we've had one that's better than ever. And so that's an emotional connection to food because you've experienced those things before. And so that's the difference between between the the two and these ideas of movements in in in in culinary in the culinary profession. But each one, each movement leaves its mark on the next generation in so many ways. We we we tend to eliminate the the the fluff if you will we tend to eliminate the non-important stuff, but we hold on to the good things that we learn, um, that we embrace, that we're able to use um moving forward. And that's that part of evolution that we so much talk about. But for me, emotions plays the most important part of cooking, right? Is to be able to give somebody an emotional experience. And that emotional experience is a memory in many ways. And so we think about success, what does success mean to us? You know, certainly we know it's not about fame, it's not about fortune. Success is about giving somebody a memory, a memory that they that they embrace and they have for the rest of their lives. And I can talk to you, you know, for hours about memories of food that I've eaten in different places and not all haute cuisine, some of them very simple food with with people, friends and family and loved ones. And so we think about, you know, what we eat, how we eat, it needs to, it needs to be, it's important. I don't want to, I don't want, I don't want to say it's not important, but remember it's only food. Um, and it's it's it's the moment and time that you are there and those who you are with that really define the experience at a much higher level than than the fo
Steven Pulvirent od yeah I think I think that's that's something that we we always talk about in relation to watches is it's they're just watches. And and you know, we touched at the beginning of this conversation on the fact that for you, collecting watches is in in large part a way to sort of mark milestones. And and I think meals and food can be the same thing. I mean, I remember every graduation dinner, every, you know, important family milestone in in my family was always marked with food. And that's that's now what my wife and I do. And it's it's those those are powerful things. And and I think the whether it's watches or food, anything that you can preface with well it's just whatever, can also be a really deep, meaningful and important thing. I agree. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. I I want to touch on we're s we're starting to to run low on time here, but one thing I I want to touch on uh mostly because it it it spoke to me as somebody who uh traffics in in words for a living. Um at the very back of the book, uh you have a little a little glossary, I would say, uh that is is the importance of words. Uh and some examples are are that things are you you sort of give a thing and then what it shouldn't be called. And it's it's a towel, not a rag, it's the kitchen, not the back of house. It's influence, not inspiration. And I w I wonder what your thinking is behind this section and if there are any others that that ended up not making it into the cookbook that that feel particularly important to you right now? Yeah it's a good question. I
Chef Thomas Keller love this. I love I love the use of words. And it really it really became I I guess a uh realization for me is when, you know, I I started as a dishwasher, right? My mother put me in front of a dishwasher whatever, you know, forty-one years ago or forty-five years ago. I can't remember. Um and and and the idea that this was you know part one of the stations, you know, one of one of the departments in that restaurant. And it was just, you know, it's it's it was a private yacht club in in Palm Beach or or even before that, no, it was a a s a a a a continental cuisine restaurant in in in Laurel, Maryland. Um, you know, I worked in so many of them as a dishwasher as a youngster for my mother. And the idea that and what I learned there is that this was a really important part of the restaurant, you know, the porter, the dishwasher, right? He was pivotal in the success of the restaurant. If the if the bartender didn't have glasses, then they could make a drink for the guests. If the servers didn't have silver, theyware couldn't set the table. If the chef didn't have uh plateware, he couldn't plate the food. Uh and so I, you know, I was the person that that really impacted all these other departments. I mean the bartender and the chef really didn't really need to engage together, right? The bartender made drinks and the chef made food. There wasn't a engagement there unless the bartender made unless the chef made food for the bar. But the dishwasher needed needed to be part of everybody's experience, right? And that was that was it and I realized that. So when you know going into a restaurant as a semi-professional for my first time and someone describing that area as the dish pit really bothered me. It's like that, you know, it's like I was back there. I I didn't work in a pit. And so that kind of was always part of my my one of my pet peeves, right? You know, to me it was never a pit. And so uh again evolution, you start to think about this and someone says give me a rag in a restaurant, you go, well that's I I don't want to see a rag in my restaurant. You know, I I want to see a towel, right? These things, the way we describe things became really important to me. And I wanted to make sure that that our staff, right, that those who we were entering understood the importance of words as well. You know, grease. That was also that was also one of my pet peeves. Like, you know, I mean Greece is like I understand the the the term greasy spoon, right? It's the restaurant down the streets, the diner or whatever it was, you know, back in the day. But none of us consume grease. It's not good for us. It's just it would really hurt us to consume grease. We we it may be the oily spoon, right? Or the fatty spoon, but it's not the greasy spoon. It just doesn't work that way. So we use fats and oils in all of our restaurants. Yes, maybe some people use too much oil or too much fat, but that's what we cook with and that's what we eat. Uh and so to understand that it's not grease and then the importance of those words. Um you know scraps, you know, that's another word I always hated. They're not scraps. They're just we we're we're trimming our food, right? So I'm not telling somebody to go scrap the salmon. I'm saying go trim the salmon, right? So what comes off of that is trimmings, not scraps. Um so it's just some of these things are obvious. Um I always love to use, you know, we use some words to to define what we need. So if if I walk into the kitchen uh and say Jimmy, right, everybody in the kitchen knows that they're supposed to buff the their their workstations. It's Jimmy Buffett, right? So that kind of stuff is just fun. Or give me a baseball, right? Which means that you want a fresh towel, right? So you know you've your towels become become soiled during during the service. And if you ask for a baseball, you know, someone throws you a you know a fresh clean white towel in the same way that you'd be on a baseball diamond when you get a f you get a fresh baseball pure pure white. So those are some of the things that that we we think about, we talk about um in trying to elevate the vocabulary of our profession to be truly a profession. Remember it wasn't until the sixties that um the labor department reclassified um us uh as as cooks professional cooks we were all considered domestic help we were labeled um even even the cooks back then who worked in the best restaurants in the country were considered domestic help. Um uh it wasn't until the sixties they reclassified
Steven Pulvirent it into a profession, culinary profession. That is super interesting. I did not know that. That is that is extremely fascinating. Yeah. Well the the last thing I want to ask you about is is we've touched on it a a couple times kind of kind of lightly, but uh now is obviously a tough time for restaurants. Um, you know, here in in LA County, even outdoor dining is is not allowed right now. And and I wonder from your perspective, for for people like me, and I'm sure many of the people listening who who love restaurants and for whom restaurants are are an important part of our lives. What can we do right now to support the restaurants we love and support the the food community, your suppliers, uh the people who make the hardware you use in the kitchens, all of all of these things to make sure that these great places are are still there for us when when things go back to normal. Well there's certainly a number of
Chef Thomas Keller things you can do. Supporting the ARC and the NRA, those are the Independent Restaurant Coalition and the National Restaurant Association. Those are two ways to support the efforts that we're making for our profession through our leaders, right? So talking to your congressmen, talking to your senators, um, making sure that they understand how important restaurants are. They are the fabric of our community. They are the cornerstones of our neighborhoods. I mean, you know, there are gonna be so many restaurants that are not gonna reopen. Um and and it's going to be a sad day when when we come out of COVID. And we realize our the favorite sandwich shop that we used to go to you know once or twice a week is no longer there. And where'd they go? Well they went away because you know they they couldn't afford to stay open. Um and how do you support that restaurant? How do you support that it's hard to because they're not open. So what do you do to support them? Um the only way to support them is to make sure that our leaders understand how critical it is to support this profession. You know, we are the largest employer behind the U.S. government, which means we the largest private employer in America. Think about that. Over 16 million people. And that's just talking about the profession itself. I'm not talking about all the all of the supply chain individuals or farmers, fishermen, foragers, gardeners, the linen companies, the garbage companies, the electricians, the florists. I mean, you know, on and on and on, people that support restaurants or are supported by restaurants. And you think about that, right? We we employ more women than anybody besides the US government. Um we have significant uh impact on generations. So many people have their first jobs at restaurants, right? I mean, there's so many people who gotten to college. Yeah, I used to work at a restaurant when I was a kid, right? Uh there are so many people who have their second chances in a restaurant who are coming out of something that's that's been a bad position for them, something that's happened in their life and and and one of their first places to go is to get a job in a restaurant because it's easy, right? So it's a second chance place. And it's it's a it's it's also the third opportunity for somebody. It's the the elderly, right? We employ more elderly than anybody, right? So you go to McDonald's or you go to anywhere a restaurant where you have elderly working to subsidize their income, right? So it's important to remember the impact that that restaurants have on our on our society uh and certainly on our neighborhoods and and each other so try to support them. Support your farmers if you can. That's another way it's not directly supporting restaurants, but if the farmers go away, then the restaurants aren't gonna have that source. Any way you can support those farmers and you know go online and try to find a farmer that you can support, whether farmer Lee Jones in Ohio or Keith Martin in Pennsylvania, those are two people that that I that I work with closely. But there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of small farms around the country that you could that you could find in your own communities and support them in ways that they need to be supported now, because they don't have restaurants to sell to. Uh and and and we all see that. Um we talk about, you know, uh to go and takeout and those things are available. Uh so of course, you know, supporting your restaurants by by going to those restaurants who are doing takeout um and and and being able to buy that. Um buying gift certificates is one way of supporting them, but it's not I don't think it's the best way because you know they're getting money today where they're the which which they're gonna have to get back tomorrow. And so that's you know, it's almost like robbing from Peter to pay Paul. But you know, gift certificates are one way to support them now. Um and and making sure that when you do use your gift certificate, you know, use it in in a in a thoughtful way, or don't use it at all, right? Just give it a contribution to them. There are so many restaurants, like our restaurants, that have a restaurant relief fund. So we have the Keller Restaurant Relief Fund where we're supporting, we furloughed over 1,100 people. We brought back around 400 of them since we've started to reopen. So there's another 600 which we've supported through contributions and donations to our 501c3. And you know, we we've we we've helped them manage their lives by giving them grants for for rents, for utilities, for daycare, for for whatever they need, um for for for for for whatever they need they'll they'll apply for a grant we've given away over a half a million dollars to over 480 individuals uh in our grant program and that's very meaningful. So those are ways to to support restaurants um and support their staff. So um just some examples of what you can do. Um but um continue to to to to be supportive continue to voice those concerns continue to share your concerns uh with others so that they hear the uh the the the need that we have and the uh the challenges that we're
Steven Pulvirent going to face coming out of this. Amazing. Yeah, we'll we will link up in the show notes to to many of the places you just you just mentioned. So if you're listening to this, check out the show notes and we'll have links so that you can go through and and support all of these these really really important organizations. Um Chef, this has been a ton of fun. Uh I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Um I really enjoyed the book, and I I again highly recommend everybody listening go uh order themsel
Chef Thomas Keller ves you know several of our of our of our loves you know watches and food so I appreciate that. Take care.
Steven Pulvirent Thank you again to Chef Thomas Keller and his team for their generosity. This week's episode was recorded in Los Angeles and Yauntville, California, and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.