Phillips' Arthur Touchot & Some Hot Vintage Tips¶
Published on Mon, 2 Nov 2020 11:00:00 +0000
Get excited: It's auction season.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinky Radio features two main segments focused on vintage watches and auctions. The show opens with Stephen Pulvirent interviewing Hodinky Shop vintage specialists Brandon and Saori, who share five tips for collecting vintage watches. Their advice emphasizes buying what you love rather than following trends, staying within comfortable budget ranges, connecting with the watch community, and doing thorough homework while accepting that mistakes are part of the learning process. They discuss how vintage collecting should be fun and accessible at various price points, highlighting that exceptional watches exist beyond the usual suspects like vintage Rolex sports models.
The main interview features Arthur Touchot, former Hodinky editor who now serves as Head of Digital at Phillips Watches. Arthur discusses his transition from journalism to the auction world and how Phillips has worked to demystify auctions through digital content creation. The conversation focuses on two upcoming November auctions: the "Retrospective" sale featuring watches from the 21st century, and Geneva Watch Auction 12, a traditional mixed sale. Arthur explains Phillips' approach to thematic sales, how they source consignments, and the challenges of creating compelling content for auction houses.
Throughout the discussion, Arthur and Stephen examine specific lots from both catalogs, including significant Patek Philippe complications, independent watchmakers like F.P. Journe and Grubel Forsey, and various Rolex Submariners. They reflect on how auctions serve as crucial gathering points for the watch community and how the pandemic has forced adaptations in how auctions are conducted and experienced. Arthur also discusses an upcoming documentary film called "A Moment in Time" that Phillips produced to accompany the Retrospective sale, featuring interviews with major industry figures reflecting on 21st-century watchmaking.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Arthur Touchot | Nothing beats the excitement and buzz of being in that room during the auction. Everyone gets together. The auctions are when you you get to meet the the end consumer, you know, the collectors and so I always kind of thought about it as like the the Super Bowl event of the the watch industry |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Pulverant and this is Hodinky Radio. This week we've got a little bit of a blast from the past for you. Uh this week's main guest is former Hodinky editor and the current specialist and head of digital at Philips Watches, Arthur Touchot. If you've been following Hodinky for a long time, that name is definitely gonna ring a bell. Arthur wrote a ton of great stories for us over the years, some key benchmark reviews, but since 2017, he's been at Phillips, where he's been leading their charge into new digital media. In addition to talking about some bigger topics like how Arthur's journalism background puts him in a kind of unique spot in the auction world. We also talk about the nitty-gritty of the two November auctions that are coming up at Phillips, the retrospective sale, which focuses on watches from the 21st century, and Geneva Watch Auction 12, which is Philip's usual mix of vintage pre-owned, all sorts of things. I was pretty excited to sit down with a former colleague and just nerd out about watches for a while, and hopefully that comes through in the segment. But before we get into that, we've got a little something special for you. When I need vintage watch advice, my first stop is always with Saori and Brandon, two folks on our own team in the Hodinki shop, and the two brains behind our vintage operation. So whether it's inspecting a dial, getting a historical clarification, or any number of other little things, they're my go-to's, and I thought maybe it was time to share the love a little bit. So we've got Brandon and Sayori on the show. This isn't going to be your usual buying tips, the you know, reloomed dials and unpolished cases stuff. This is gonna be more big picture. It's gonna be more about their approach to collecting vintage watches and how to make it a fun experience from top to bottom. The last thing I want to note is that I'm actually currently moving across the country for the next few months. So I'm gonna be without my podcasting gear uh and kind of off the grid for a little bit. So there won't be a show next week. We'll be back on November 16th with a really fantastic show for you. But with that in mind, we've got a really awesome show for you this week. I think you're all really gonna love it. So without further ado, let's do this. This week's episode is presented by Oris and the new Aquas Date Calibur 400, powered by the brand's newest in-house movement. Stay tuned later in the show to learn more and be sure to visit Oris.ch for all the details. Hey, how are you two doing? Great. How are you? Doing well, thanks, Steven. I'm doing good. It's uh it's good to have you both on the show. I feel like this is this is a long time overdue. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, of course, of course. Um so I mean the we decided we wanted to get you guys on the show. I mean, I love vintage watches. You guys are the experts. I'm constantly bothering the two of you about like my own vintage watch questions and just like cruising by your desks to see to see what's what's coming and what's going on. Um but I thought it'd be fun to have you on the show and and kind of share some of that knowledge with our readers. So I know we talked earlier this week and I had you guys prep kind of five tips for for people looking to get into vintage watches. Um all kind of focused around the theme of making it fun, right? Like that that's the ultimate goal here. Exactly. So with that in mind, I think maybe we just jump right into it. I don't think I need to do too much setup there. Um so Brandon, I think you're gonna you're gonna kick us off here. You wanna go ahead with uh tip number one |
| Brandon | for enjoying vintage watches? So um it seems today that a lot of people in the vintage watch world are focused on kind of all the same models. Um, you know, whether it be vintage sports Rolex or Steel Paddock or you, know, kind of these other usual suspects. I do think those are all great and have some my own collection, but I think I think it's best not to let all these popular or hot trends sway your decision if you're not necessarily into it and if you kinda like something that not many other like, you know, I think you should still go with it. So I think uh the first tip would be buy what you love, to try to be a little unique. Go for something that you really are into. And just because other people aren't into it, it doesn't mean it's not wrong. For example, when I first started like working in the watch world, I was only into really Rolex sports watches. And then after I was exposed to a lot of other watches I realized that I kind of was into a lot of different things whether it be vintage Seiko's you know time only thirty five millimeter watches or you know, Calatrava style, or even you know, like Vulcan crickets and all these other kind of like interesting things you don't see too much. You know, there are so many great watches out there that m a lot of people don't even know about. And that's the beauty about this whole hobby, is there's so much out there to discover |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I mean I think I think that's a really good point is that like your your own taste is going to evolve too. So like buying what you love is is great advice, but you should you should also be okay to like buy something, love it, and then decide you don't love it anymore, or that you love something else also and kind of expand. Exactly. I think people get trapped in this idea that like they love this thing and this is their thing. like And you said, like you still love vintage sport Rolex, but you can also enjoy like a beautiful ninety six or a like a really great nineteen fifties chronograph or something like that. Right, exactly. Well said there. Um |
| Brandon | yeah, so like don't be afraid to kinda take a risk on something that you're that you haven't seen before or if it's not so popular and you like it, just don't overthink it. If you if this is |
| Stephen Pulvirent | what you like and then go for it. Saori, is is there a watch that kind of falls into that category for you, something that's like off the beaten path or outside the like usual taste, but that you personally really like? Off the |
| Saori | beat mm, that's a that's a tough one. I d I tend to like uh more classic pieces in general, but I think um like for example, uh maybe the it's a classic but not a highly collectible, but I wear it every day. It's like an air king. Um I do wear an air king, uh which many people have seen it on the what which watch have you worn the most every um every year and it's gonna be like the third year the same watch for me. But um you know, I I think um, you know, when I first started in this business, of course, you know, submariner and you know the the usual suspects as we call them, you know, I I think that's something that everyone wants. Um, and I had one too. And I think we all go through this sort of uh phase of, you know, wanting something because everyone else wants one. Um and just to go back to what uh Brandon was saying. Um and I guess, you know, to to touch to your point, uh Stephen, I I think uh finding the quirky thing that you had no idea about and you just happen to find one. I guess I have a Seiko from the 60s and it's just a very classic looking Seiko, which I never really knew much about. Um, and it was to be honest, it was like a few hundred dollars. Um nice. You know, I wish I had the watch um in front of me uh so I can show you guys, but um I think that's the kind of thing that vintage is really exciting about because um there are so many pieces out there that you know even you've been in this business for you know over ten years or so you still can find things that you've never seen before. And I I think that's the exciting part about vintage. Like you don't have to stick to what you think you like because there's so much out there |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I mean Brandon, you you you have another point for us that actually in some ways I guess addresses this about you know making sure that you feel comfortable with the process, right? |
| Brandon | Exactly. So my uh another rule I think that one should follow is uh buy or do what you feel comfortable with. Obviously, everyone has a different budget, so I would say figure out you know how much you feel comfortable spending. Uh at the end of the day, this is supposed to be a fun, a fun hobby, a fun thing to do. And if you overextend because you want to just like fit in or just get something that's out of your league or range, I just don't recommend that. Get something you feel comfortable with. Don't feel like you have to go crazy uh for your first time. I always tell my friends and clients, it's like when you're ready to buy a watch, mechanical, you know, your first real watch, just let me know and don't worry about the price range. Just tell me how much you want to spend it. We'll find something great. You know, some of the like least expensive watches for me kind of give me the most joy. Like a for example like a Seiko Bellmatic I didn't get for you know a couple hundred bucks and um which is like the alarm Seiko you know v,intage um alarm model and I I love that thing. And it's funny. It's like just gives me as much pleasure as I guess like a submariner or somet |
| Stephen Pulvirent | hing. Yeah, and I think on the on the flip side of that, right, like there can sometimes feel like there's pressure to buy the like more expensive piece, to buy the the sub, the speedy, the royal oak, like the thing that everybody's gonna recognize. But like you might not feel comfortable wearing that around, whereas, you know, a Seiko Belmatic, you might feel great wearing around. And, you know, maybe it makes sense to have both in the collection, maybe it makes sense to have one now, one later. I I that's a personal choice. But I think it is important to think about like, what are you actually gonna wear? What fits into your lifestyle? And what what makes you happy as opposed to like what makes somebody else happy? And when you look down at your wrist, if you get that satisfaction, that's like what it's really about. |
| Saori | Yeah. Yeah, just to add to that point, I think the vintage, as I was talking um earlier, um, I think within that price points or price ranges, I think you can find a lot of different kinds within that price range. So you don't have to be stuck always stuck with you know you have to spend over ten thousand dollars or you can find a fun quirky piece that you want to wear, you know, now and then under a thousand between, you know, a thousand to two thousand or you know for sure. So I I think it's it's to to touch upon Brandon's point. I think it's a great idea to kind of set a price range and then find what's out there within that price range. I mean that could be also like a direction that you can have for collect |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ing. I I think that's a I think a lot of people head into the process thinking like I want this and that's what I want and then they find out what it costs and they're disappointed instead of kind of like setting themselves up to succeed here, you know? Right. And to to the first point here, like this should be and kind of the overarching point. Like this should be fun. And you should buy something you love, this shouldn't be a stressful process. Like this should not feel like a chore. It should feel fun and like a hobby, you know? Exactly. Yeah. So Sarah, you've got you've got our next point, and it's something that's a little a little broader. It's less about the watch and more about kind of like the atmosphere around the watch, right? Yeah, exact |
| Saori | ly. Um, you know, when it comes to vintage watches, I think for first time buyers it's it's almost like where do I start from and how do I get more information? And you know, I think it's important to connect with these people um who are in the c watch community and it's so easy to do that with online presence now. You know, we have our Hodinki community as well, but there are a lot of watch forums, you know, Instagram. There's so many ways to connect with these people. So, you know, start somewhere and connect with these people and they'll, you know, they'll be happy to share a lot of information that you have, you know, you didn't know about. And then, you know, once you find out about something new, then you can go find more things um and connect with more people. And I think a lot of people that I've known in the past have, you know, kind of grown their collection through that way by finding out more about new, you know, new pieces or pieces that they've never known about. You know, also speak to, you know, credible dealers, watch dealers, you know, and they, you know, once you form relationships, I think that's when you start getting the good stuff, right? Um so I I think it's also important it's not just the you know it's of course about watches but it's also about the people um in the community who support this um whole collecting uh I guess it it's our big hobby, I suppose. Yeah, so I think that's the um important part. And it now it's easy to do. So yeah, we I highly recommend doing |
| Stephen Pulvirent | that. Our our last point here, I think, is is a good one, uh, 'cause it kind of ties up the other four. So I'm gonna I'm gonna throw those your way and let you let you take us home here with number five. Okay. So number five is do your homework. |
| Saori | Um homework never sounds great, but I think it's one of those things you just have to. But you know, if you really love vintage watches, you know, it's really not a homework in the sense of like you're gonna really enjoy finding out more uh more information about pieces, more brands you're interested in, and you know, trying to find good examples to look at. And I think also just kind of going back to what I was talking about, you just have to see them and just have more experience. And that's really the only way to really up your game in the vintage world in the sense that there's no right or wrong answer. It's not an exact science i would say it's more of an art um and there's more information out there as brandon was talking about you know on instagram online you know watch communities um meetups you you just get a lot of information out there. Um, the more you learn, you know, the more experience you're gonna get, and you're gonna find good and bad watches. And and um, you know, that's the truth. Um, not all watches are good. Uh, there are bad watches out there, but the only way to really find out and you know have confidence and knowing which ones are good and bad you just have to go out there and put yourself out there and um just go experience the watches in person as much as you can. And um and you know, between Brandon myself and also Stephen Gray, um, you know, even doing this for many, many years, we still learn something new every day. And it that sounds a little cliche, but it's so true. You know, while we do our description it's totally true. It really is true. I mean it's like, oh wow it's so true. We didn't oh okay, like I didn't know about this, you know, this aspect of this watch and and you know we've been doing this for a while, but um I think that's the fun part of doing our job because we learn literally learn something new every |
| Stephen Pulvirent | day. Yeah. And I your point about bad watches is is an important thing too. And and I think it's a thing that people don't like talking about it it because it feels kind of like gross in a certain way or like scary in a certain way. But uh like I have bought multiple bad watches. I've bought watches that I've I I bought watches that I bought, they weren't for me, or like something wasn't quite right. So I sold them and moved on, whatever. I've bought a watch that, you know, I bought, I think I've talked about this on the show before, you know, I bought a vintage tutor day date back in the day, uh on eBay for like couple hundred bucks. It was a total steal. Turns out it was cause the watch just didn't work. And like it just I I sent it to three different watchmakers. I spent like eight months trying to get this thing repaired. I ended up selling it to a dealer friend for parts for like half of what I paid it for it. You know, like it sucked. I lost, you know, a couple hundred bucks on the process and a lot of frustration and time, but I learned. I learned not to like I learned that if it looks too good to be true, it's probably too good to be true. And you know, like that's a that's a valuable lesson to learn, you know, twelve months into my vintage watch journey or whatever, you know. Um so I think people shouldn't be afraid of that and there's also no shame in it. You know, like don't if you buy a bum watch, like talk to other people about it. Don't don't be afraid of it. Agreed. Agreed. Um as |
| Saori | much as we don't want to make any mistakes, um, you know, and we should all try to eliminate that, but as as your example, you know, um was perfect. You know, it does happen, but it's also a learning moment. And don't get discouraged just because of one bad experience, because there are so many good things out there. That's also good. And I guess one |
| Brandon | thing to add on to this is you know, if what you're when you're inspecting watches and seeing stuff, you should definitely have a loop. I think that's the one piece of equipment you should get, like a nice little loop. That's really solid advice. Yeah. I mean, you know, there is a lot there are a lot more tools out there that you can get after, but I think starting out with a good loop is just something. It's it's small to fit in your pocket when you go to these previews or go to these stores, you can use it. It's we all want to, you know, it just helps you see the watch better and you can pick up little things that you won't you won't necessarily see without it. So I think that's that's a b |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ig one. Yeah, that's great. That's great advice. Uh all right, to finish things off here, I'm I'm gonna throw one more thing at you. I know you guys are deep in prepping for you know, by the time people hear this, this week's drop of watches on the Hodinky shop. Um, and I kind of wanted to know if we could get a little sneak peek. I know we don't normally do that, but I figure we can give listeners a little a little something to look forward to. So uh maybe we'll start with Brandon and then Saori. Can you guys just tell us your personal favorite watch from this week's uh collection? |
| Brandon | So my pick for this week is this uh Automar P Gay, uh I technically I guess a dress watch, but this one's special because it's kind of like a time capsule where it's from the 1970s, but basically new old stock condition, 33 millimeter, time only, manual wind, super thin. And the case has developed this really nice patina where it's kind of like rainbow, kind of around the bezel. It it's yellow gold, but the whole thing is developed kind of a warmer tone, which is nice. And the val even has a crosshair on it. So it's it's super cool. Has the original box papers, AP strap, AP buckle. So I picked this one because I just like the idea that it's kind of never been touch for all these years since the seventies. And you know, if I were to get it, I would kind of want to wear it. I don't know. I bet a lot of people may just stick this in the safe, but I think it would be fun to wear something that's you know, you could be the first person to really wear this vintage wat |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ch. Yeah, that's that's super cool. I I love that idea of getting something untouched that's vintage, but being the person to break it in like it's a new watch. Um it's uh that's also just such an underappreciated era in AP's history, right? Like it's right before the Royal Oak, but it's when AP was still doing these like very traditional classic old school watchmaking things. Sarah, what's your uh what's your pick for |
| Saori | the week? Sure, absolutely. So my pick for this week or upcoming Wednesdays listing is um a Rolex Day Date from um 1971, reference 1803 in white gold. And I think with um day dates, you know, sometimes it's yellow gold pink gold mostly and it's a little bit too much for a little you know for many people in the sense that it's you know it's a little bit in your face but the one in white gold I really recommend because it's subtle. Like if you know it's in white gold, uh it's an it's you know it looks like a stainless steel in terms of colorway, but it is in white gold, so you kind of have that weight on your wrist. And it's just such a classic watch to have um you know, even presents wore it. So um, you know, I think it's it's also a watch that you can dress it up and um dress it down as well. So the one that I have in front of me, literally in my hand, is a white gold version, um fluted bezel, you know, the classic. It's actually fitted with our hodinky strap, a gray strap, uh, Sedona strap. So um in terms of wearability, I think it's great at 36 millimeters, you know, it's perfect for me, uh perfect for Brandon, perfect for you, you know. Definitely perfect for me. Definitely perfect for me. It's it's, you know, again, this one actually has a linen texture dial. So it's a little different from the others, um, just to give it a little twist from the classic. Um, and it's a non-loom dial, and so you don't have to worry about loom losses, which which can happen uh on these as well. So yeah, and all in all, again, I think it's a perfect gift for holidays if you're thinking about that. You know, just give it to yourself, give it to your loved ones. And it's it's a classic piece that's going to last for many many years um you know and it's a I think it's really like an heirloom piece as well it's you know eventually uh you can pass it down to someone in your family um you know it's it's just a wonderful classic watch, and I think you know I would want one. I never had one. Um, so this is one I recommend for someone who's a little afraid of wearing a colored metal gold uh day date, but still had the satisfaction of wearing a day d |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ate. Well, now I know what I'm doing Tuesday when I'm in the office for a photo shoot. I will be coming upstairs to take a look at both of those pieces. Uh now now you're gonna tempt me too, which is very dangerous in in the hodinky office. But um thank you guys for doing this. I know it's been a crazy week. We're majorly ramping up vintage stuff, uh, and most of that falls on you guys. Uh so I really appreciate you taking the time to do this and we'll uh So uh I thought it'd be nice to to share a little bit of the the love and the wealth with with the audience. So thanks for doing this. Enjoy the weekend and uh I'm sure I'll see you guys next week. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks so much. Up next, my conversation with Philip's Arthur Tushoe. Hey Arthur, good to talk to you |
| Arthur Touchot | . Hey Steven, thank you for having me on the podcast. How are things over in Geneva? Yeah, we're doing well. We've just sent out the catalogs for the Geneva Watch Auction 12 and the retrospective thematic auction, and already we're receiving great feedback. That's all yeah. It's great to hear, you know, we've we've been working so hard on this. Um the circumstances have been pretty crazy, as as you can imagine. Yeah for sure. Of than usual because the the June the May sale was moved to June. Uh and we haven't been able to travel. So it's it's been it's been really tough, but we ended up with a great catalog. And um we're we're excited now to you know we we just hope that we're we're able to host the sale in the best way possible in three weeks and that's really out of our hands |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, it's true. I mean like you you mentioned like the circumstances have obviously been crazy for everybody in every business. But um I mean for what you do like you you need to be up close with people and you need to be up close all over the world and you're like handling things together. Like it's a very uh it's a high touch business. So like have have you have you and your team at Phillips have has everybody had to kind of like adapt from the ground up to like everything from how you source watches to how you deal with collectors to how you're presenting the catalogs and the final sale |
| Arthur Touchot | ? Yeah absolutely and I would say that we're really lucky in the sense that first of all we had great results in June. So that is very reassuring to potential consigners. You know, they feel that this is a good time still to consign their pieces. Um and that's true for clients that we know and can contact easily and and and know us and know how how we work. But it also means that we have a lot of new clients who have heard of the results one way or another and feel that this might be a good time to consign a piece that they've had for a while. Yeah, that's that's really inter |
| Stephen Pulvirent | esting. I mean, I think uh just from my standpoint, like I I watched the sales that you guys did over the summer and like, you know, I've watched auctions online before, everything was great. You know, the production value is I think upped a little bit, which is is cool, but uh you know, I I was kind of excited, you know, early in in quarantine to not be traveling quite so much to get some time with my with my wife at home and to see friends uh once we could do that again. But uh I'll I'll admit I've got I've got major FOMO right now. I think the the November auctions in Geneva are a really special thing. Um and you know I I'm sure I've talked about it on this show before with Ben and Jack, and uh it's it's gonna be weird to not be in the room with everybody for these for these big big sales. It's it's like kind of how the watch industry closes the year out. It it it's gonna be weird to be doing it from my laptop and my phone instead of from the auction rooms. |
| Arthur Touchot | Yeah, for sure. There there's you know nothing beats the excitement and buzz uh of being in that room during the auction. Um it's also one of the few times in the year where everyone gets together. You know, there there's there were the fairs, and then but that's very business-led, I would say. It's it's inside baseball. The auctions are when you you get to meet the the the end consumer, you know, the collectors. And so I always kind of thought about it as like the the Super Bowl event of the watch industry. The big uh auction weekends in May and and November |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I I I totally agree with you. I think some people think of of Basel World as that and like, okay, I I understand that. Um or even, you know, some folks SIHH. But I I agree with you. I think the sort of like diversity of perspectives you get at auction week is really interesting because you have, you know, you have the brand reps who are trying to buy back their top pieces. You've got, you know, diehard collectors, you've got people new to the industry, you've got journalists, you've got, you know, really every every kind of like little aspect. You've got often like folks from competing auction houses who are are in the room because they want to be able to see what's going on. And it's uh it's also a kind of a nice way for the watch industry to reach the broader world, you know, whether it's through the sale of something like the Paul Newman, which I know is is near and dear to your heart, or uh, you know, when the super complication sold again a few years ago, like these are moments where the watch industry gets to speak to the broader world and they get to do it from Geneva with everybody kind of in one place, uh often, you know, obviously Paul Newman was was in New York, but um yeah, I think they're there's special moments internally but also externally for the watch world |
| Arthur Touchot | . Yeah, definitely. And uh the the Paul Newman sale was was extraordinary for me for many reasons. First of all, it was my first uh watch auction, but this was really the first time that I I got to see the the the ins and outs uh of of an option and i think it was really a defining moment for philips because you know when i joined phillips three years ago uh phillips was already the market leader in its field but if I told someone that I worked for an auction house called Phillips, they might not necessarily know who I who I was working for. So you know one of the one of the reasons O'Hara had this vision, right? One of the reasons why I was brought in was because he wanted to demystify the auction industry. I think he already knew that the potential number of enthusiasts who would want to participate to an auction was vastly superior to what what the auction houses were seeing. What happened after the Paul Newman sale was that suddenly Phillips was was placed on the map for non-watch enthusiasts. And that that led to a lot of very important consignments of watches that were fresh to the market that had just been in the family of the original owner for several generations. So the results of past watches has helped discover new watches, and that's been really exciting to see |
| Stephen Pulvirent | unfold. You mentioned that the Paul Newman was your first auction from the inside. Do you do you remember going to your first watch auction either as a as a collector or a journalist |
| Arthur Touchot | ? I do remember going to my first auction. And in fact, I was really lucky because I went to three auctions that weekend. So I'd flown in to Geneva from London and I was covering an auction season for Hodinky. And suddenly I got to see the team at Christie's, the team at Sotheby's, and the team at Phillips, more watches than I'd ever seen before, vintage watches at least. And it was the first time that I met a lot of collectors that I had seen and maybe conversed with on on social media but never really met. So it was really exciting to to finally see the the big players um and and flex their muscle in the auction room. I mean it was just it was so entertaining. That's the thing that I think is missed a little bit in online auctions. It's the the theatrics of it. But uh not all auctions are as theatrical as the |
| Stephen Pulvirent | as as an auction led by Orel. And just for everybody uh to make sure everybody is aware, um Aurel is Aurel Box who uh heads up the the Phillips watch department, right, Arthur? Yep. That's right. Yeah. I mean that's that's something I actually wanted to ask you about, which is, you know, you guys can do everything, everything in your power to make the online auctions compelling. You can, you know, up the production value, more cameras, more interesting backgrounds. Like, but at the end of the day, like there's only so much you can do. Uh and and one of Arel's great strengths, if if I can say, is you know, he's he's great at reading the room and he's great at playing off that energy and sort of like he brings energy, but more importantly than that, he's really good at amplifying other people's energy. And I think without that kind of like give and take, without that feedback loop, some something is is still lost. And and I wonder how you guys I I think for Phillips, again, speaking as an outsider, I I don't know how you think about it internally, but I think as an outsider, Arrell is is one of your greatest assets. I think he he his performance in the auction room, uh, even beyond all the amazing stuff he does behind the scenes, but the stuff he does in front of people is is a huge competitive advantage over the other auction houses. And I wonder how you guys try to capture that or or replicate it or you know kind of uh make up that ground when you're doing an online sale. Sure. Well the thing is he's also |
| Arthur Touchot | uh very good with the online bidding. I don't know if you've ever uh followed the sale as a uh as a as a bidder or e even just uh watched the feed but he will look into the camera knowing that the the bids are coming from online and you'll feel like you're in the room next to him. It's pretty incredible. And I think he was one of the first to and this was many years ago. Uh it's nothing to do with the fact that uh we now have to do online sales. But already many years ago, he was able to create a connection with an online bidder. Uh and and I I I can't tell him how to do that. Uh there's no planning. Uh that's just all hell. Yeah. So the only thing I can do is make sure that there are more bidders registered online ready to bid. And then it plays out, you know, we have no idea how how it will play out uh even a few hours before a sale. But a few years ago when I joined there were maybe three to four hundred online participants. Now we're talking about two thousand online participants every single sale. That's wild. That's a wild number. I think that's the biggest change that's occurred in the past few years for the auction industry. It used to be led by a group of hardcore enthusiasts, dealers, and whenever there was a piece that the a museum wanted, there would be a museum behind. Now the auction is being dominated by private collectors. And ultimately, you know, this is gonna sound a little ridiculous, but today uh the price of a watch is determined by the person who wants it the most this has always been true but the who in that sentence has changed it's now private collector |
| Stephen Pulvirent | s This week's episode is presented by Oris. Last week, we told you about Oris's newest in-house creation, the Caliber 400, and this week we've got to look at the very first watch to utilize this movement, the Aqua Date Caliber 400. If you're familiar with Oris' Aqua's collection, this new watch will feel very familiar on the surface. It has a sturdy case profile with compact lugs and steep sides, and the unidirectional bezel's ceramic dive insert has just the right amount of shine. But look closer and you'll notice a few new things. The sunburst blue dial has the words 5 days subtly displayed at 6 o'clock, just above the larger date window with its white-on-black date display. This is a nod to the caliber 400 movement inside, which boasts a 5-day power reserve, is made with anti-magnetic components for increased reliability, utilizes a new winding rotor system that's more efficient and more durable, and only needs to be serviced every 10 years. You can see the caliber at work through the Sapphire case back, and you'll definitely want to give it a look. Oris didn't stop there though. The Aqua State Calibur 400 also features Oris's new patented quick strap change system, allowing you to swap the bracelet for a strap with the lift of a flap, no tools required. So while the Oris Date Calibur 400 might look like the Aurus Dive Watch as you know and love, it's truly a new watch through and through. For more about Oris and the Aqua State Caliber 400, visit Oris.ch. Alright, let's get back to the show. You know, what you've identified here is is something I I wanted to talk about, which is that you took over a a a new position at Phillips. You you didn't, you know, you're a watch specialist, but you also had digital strategy for the for the watch department, which as far as I'm aware is not a job they had before, right? Like you didn't fill somebody else's post. No. Right. And and I think, you know, you come from a journalist background. Obviously we were we were colleagues at Hodinky for years. Uh, you know, people who have followed the site for a long time will know that. People who don't, uh Arthur was a member of our our editorial team, he was our our man in Europe, uh based in London, um and and did some really amazing stories which, you know, we don't have to go into the specifics, but we'll link some up in the show notes just so people can check 'em out. But uh yeah, I I I think it's interesting that Phillips m the Phillips watch department in particular identified that having somebody with like a media background and having somebody who knew how to speak to the collectors and to do it sort of natively on the internet, uh, identifying that that was an important thing for them to have, I think, is is itself in a conservative industry like the watch industry, a no no small thing. Like that's that's a meaningful uh change of change of tactics |
| Arthur Touchot | . Yeah, absolutely. So Aurel had a vision which was to make the auction house not just a place where transactions take place, you could buy and sell watches, but really a destination for content, a place to connect with other collectors. You know, what we do today is much more than |
| Stephen Pulvirent | sell 600 watches a year. One of the things that interests me about that is is that you know we talked about it earlier that the physical auctions are a a connecting point for the community and they always have been. And finding ways to extend that so that it's not just you know a weekend in May and a weekend in November and then you know the December sale in New York and the the sales in Hong Kong but like the fact that this can exist year round and that you know if, I'm sitting in New York and you're sitting in Geneva and a collector's in Hong Kong and somebody's in Paris or whatever, like we can all kind of be having a conversation about these things, whether it's via Instagram or or other platforms. W |
| Arthur Touchot | ell where I was really lucky is that um you know this was as you said this was a uh position that was created for me and I I quickly understood that um at an auction house you have to justify every dollar that is invested and have to be able to measure the return on that investment as a bid online, as a as a bid at auction. And that's really difficult when you're creating content, right? Because you're working towards something that's much longer term. You're trying to demystify the auction world, trying to make it more more open and easier of access to watch enthusiasts. And that's what that's something that I really enjoyed with Phillips. You know, when I when I started covering the auction industry, I I very like I felt intimidated so many times by the level of the collectors that were in front of me, just even by the space that auctions take place in and certain on some occasions. You know, O'Reill is I 100 beh 100% behind the ideas that I that I'm bringing to the table, and it's so freeing. You have to be able to take a few risks when you're trying to be a little bit creative uh especially in a in a business that isn't necessarily used to uh as much content creation um and so i'm very lucky to have someone who had that vision already years ago and who |
| Stephen Pulvirent | was backing me 100%. I I wonder, did you, when you transitioned into this role, I mean, you have you have like a real, I hate to say like a real journalism background, but you you do. I mean, like you're a Northwestern journalism school grad, you know, you you you did some conflict journalism before ending up in the watch world. Like what was it like for you to take those those sort of like hard journalism skills and apply them in a in a new way for for an auction house |
| Arthur Touchot | . Yeah, so as you mentioned, I went to Northwestern uh because I I always knew that I wanted to be a journalist. Um that was clear to me even from a very young age. And one of the reasons why I stayed at Northwestern an extra year things to a scholarship and and ended up getting a master's there is I think because I just didn't know what my beat should be. And when you you know when you're a uh journalism student it's impressed upon you pretty early on that you should you should figure out what your beat is. And I was just completely lost. I I loved watches by the way. I was already going on all of the forums, but it never occurred to me that I should be a watch journalist or that I that I should aim to be a watch journalist. So as you said, I did a bit of uh conflict reporting and then I quickly ended up at the International Herald Tribune um in Paris. And I was assigned to the um supplements, the special sections. Uh and there were a few business of green, uh cut above jewelry and a cut above watches. And that's where I really found uh I I found a really special place. First of all, I was copy editing the best watch journalists uh around the world. And I they opened my eyes. I I saw that you could, you know, that there was really some very interesting storytelling around the uh around watches. And I I really wanted to take part in that. So I raised my hand at the first opportunity to contribute to the to the supplement and uh and I really enjoyed it and and it it I kind of fell into it by accident. Uh I I had never planned to to be a watch journalist. But something that's quite funny is that early on I you know I was looking at uh what was what was out there and and there was uh there were lots of forums but there were very few magazines like Hudinky. So Hudinky was quickly on my radar. And and I told I told this to my wife that you know I I'd seen this this great website that was producing content that I was really interested in and I'd like to I I'd like to write for Hodin Hudinky. And she she replied like, Yeah, I I know the guys from Hudinky. I went to Columbia with them. And it was like a surreal moment for me. And so, you know, I I was delighted to be able to to to join the team uh a few years later. I I I d to answer your question about the the skill sets that uh that translate I I'm not really sure. I think that you you know you have to be a good writer and you have to be really passionate about what you're writing about. Um and I think that you know I I'm amazed by the content that I'm seeing not only at Hudinky but, uh you know, I I know you had Jenny on recently uh on the podcast and I'm big big fan of what you're doing on YouTube as well. Um and I I'm just I'm just glad that there are so many young content creators that are you know that are tackling a pretty a a pretty intimidating business to be honest |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, it it is. It's it's funny. I I think the watch world can be quite intimidating, but I think once you get through that kind of external shell, it's it's a weirdly warm place. And I think that comes from the fact that it's it's a niche thing and most of the folks kind of at the top of the the collecting game or the auction game or whatever like part of this when they got into it it was still like kind of weird like you know it was it was still like people would be kind of befuddled when you told them you worked in watches. Um and so I think there's this sense that like if you're if you're in the family, you're in the family. And I I I think again, you know, not to keep harping on it, like that's one of the things I love about the auctions as events is it's it's like a chance to catch up with your extended family, you know, and whether it's having a bloody merry at uh, you know, La Reserve before the sale or grabbing a bite to eat afterwards or, you know, I've run into people on the street in Geneva and catch up. It's it's it has like a it has a warmth about it that's kind of nice and maybe not what you'd expect when people are like, you know, aggressively you know, outbidding each other for a three hundred thousand dollar Daytona or whatever, you know. Um but it it has that side too, which I I think is really important. Ye |
| Arthur Touchot | ah, no, th they're there's this image that they're super competitive and and you know, of course some some collectors are competitive with each other, but more often than not you'll find the uh the winner buying a beer to the loser at the at |
| Stephen Pulvirent | La Reserve a few hours after there. So a minute ago we talked we talked about your journalism skills and I I think you you mentioned, you know, w when you're writing a story, it's kind of the same thing, but you're not just writing stories online. I mean, you're also producing films. And uh by the time people hear this, uh not when we've recorded it, but by the time people hear this, um you'll have a a short film out um called A Moment in Time that is tied to the the retrospective sale, uh, which is the sale of watches produced over the last 20 years. It's the first like real retrospective sale of 21st century horology. And uh just a few hours ago you guys dropped the teaser for this film, uh, which tells people when we were recording this. And it struck me to see the sort of parade of people who are a part of this. And the watches are obviously important, but what really stood out to me is how foregrounded people are in this story. And I wonder if you can you can talk about A, the the motivations behind this this film project, and B how people became kind of like the the foremost element of it |
| Arthur Touchot | yeah sure um yeah it was it was pretty clear early on for me that uh you know creating the teaser that it should the teaser should be about the people because the the the people make the industry. I mean I I completely agree with what you were saying earlier about this warmth that you find in the industry. Like I feel so privileged to very early on have had like so many people take me under their wing and and guide me through through the watch industry. Whether it was uh Jean-Claude Bivert answering your email within like five minutes and getting on the call with you to answer any question you had about the latest launch of an LVMH product. Uh but maybe let's let's go let's go back to the motivation behind this film. So we decided to put together a thematic sale uh in collaboration with Blackbird Watch Manual that focuses on uh the twenty first century. So all of the pieces were made that that are in the auction were made in in the past twenty years. And we figured why not make a film to celebrate these twenty years? The The industry has changed tremendously in such a short amount of time. And for me personally, it was an honor to to to take you know to take this on because my watch education uh I owe to watches from the twenty first century. Sure. A watch journalist during the past twenty years. And I know for example that whenever I'd go to a fair and I'd meet someone like Jack Forster and they would be able to tell me about what the in watch industry was like before the internet, for example, I was both extremely jealous and curious about what it was like, but I also felt like maybe I lacked a little bit of legitimacy because I just had not seen that that period of the industry's history. But I feel like I do know 21st century watchmaking. Um and so it was amazing to be able to bring together people with very different perspectives on the past 20 years. We've got watchmakers. Um, we got people like Ben, who have like actively participated to the creation of a niche, you know, watch press historians like Michael Friedman at Otomar Pi Gay and Katherine Eberlet at Tag Hoyer, watchmakers like Rexap Rex Epi, F.P. Journ, Stephen Forzay, uh Max Bousser. So we've got a really interesting mix of you know leading figures of the industry who are able to talk about their own different uh perspective on the past 20 years. And look, I I I can't, I'm not gonna overpromise anything. The the film the tease is out that the film hasn't actually done. We've we've had seven weeks to do it under the most the craziest of circumstances because you know, we don't have access to everyone. So uh fortunately I' I'mm based in Geneva and we were able to film most of the participants in person locally here. But we've worked with film crews in Singapore, in New York, with Ben, uh in LA, and so it's been it's been incredible uh seven weeks for me personally, but um I I really hope it's something that people will enjoy and can discover, you know, after the sale. That I I I guess just to go back a little bit to what we were discussing about you know creating content for an auction house, of course this has you know, this is tied to to the retrospective sale, but the idea here is to create something that if a watch enthusiast discovers this in five, ten, twenty years, it's it will still be relevant to them. I hopefully they'll still come away with something interesting, you know, that they've learned something from this film |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, that's great. I mean that's that's something that like I think speaks very uh directly to what what we're often doing at Hodinki too is like you know whether it's an episode of this show or whether it's something we do in the print magazine or one of the sort of longer, more like reference grade things we do online, so so much of this is about building building a library. Like you know, watch media is so new, relatively speaking. I mean, there were trade publications for years, but sort of watch media that speaks to the more human side of this and the the broader picture is is relatively new. It's also a 21st century invention. And so whether it's, you know, the the a moment in time film or the catalog of this show or whatever, like I I think just as the sort of catalog of 21st century watchmaking is is growing and building a legacy, we're we're also kind of participating that in our own way, hopefully, you know, so that twenty years from now, like you said, somebody can look back and and hopefully get a sense of this this moment in time. Um and I I think, you know, it's worth talking about the the sale a little more deeply. You know, I I don't think we need to go lot by lot here, but you know, for for people who may not remember Ph Phillips, I mean we could go lot by lot. That'd be uh a much a much longer show. Uh I think it'd probably be only you and me standing at the end, but I think it's worth people remembering that when Phillips relaunched the watch department with with Arel, um back in 2015, the very first sale was a thematic sale. It was the glamorous day date sale. And so this is not something new for Phillips, and it's something that that is really sort of core, I think, to how Phillips views the wa views watch auctions in general. I mean, is that something you guys think about and talk about internally? Is is the role that thematic sales play in the bigger picture? |
| Arthur Touchot | Honestly, not much. Uh thematic sales only occur when we have consignments that seem to reveal a theme. Interesting. Because these thematic sales are not single owner sales. Those are two different things. Right. So while the theme might be extremely crisp, you know, clear, uh the watches come from various owners in different parts of the world and in some cases, for some thematic sales, different eras uh in terms of when when the watches were made. But thematic sales usually take shape when we when we've already been able to look at the watches that are consigned and see a pattern there |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I mean that that makes total sense. It's interesting. I I would have assumed that you sort of like came up with the theme and then hunted down the watches, but it's interesting to hear that it could |
| Arthur Touchot | do that. And we we desperately want to do that. We have so many ideas with very interesting themes, but the tr the difficult you know the difficulty and it's really uh it's it's more than it and then a than a small difficulty. It's it's it's it's the reason why we can't do it is that you would then after determining a theme, have to go and look for the watches. We might be able to do that because we have a pretty good understanding of where most of the at least the watches that have sold at Phillips, where the where they are. So we it's quite easy to to to call a client and uh go through the collection and see if they still have it. But the thing is they they also need to have a desire to sell at that point. Right. And you have no control over that |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, totally. It's it's I think that's something about the auction business that people often forget is it's like, oh, it's auction season, so there's another beautiful pink gold 24$9.9, and it's like I think some people take for granted that those watches are just like out there waiting to be sold when in fact like finding finding someone every year who's who's willing to part with a quality example of something like that is is not not easy. You know, it's it's easy to take it for granted. It's not so easy, I think, to actually have to do the to do the legwork there. Yeah, no. Otherwise uh |
| Arthur Touchot | we you know we we'd be we'd be going and looking for a 1518 in steel, uh Pingold 2499. I I could cre I could create uh the most beautiful catalog right now for you, but I have no power over what the current owner wants to do with the with the watches. Totally |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . So I I I'm looking at the catalog for for this sale right now for retrospective, and something that jumped out to me immediately is that if we go by estimates, four of the top five watches are from Patek Philippe. So we've got an FP Jorne Sonerie Souveran at number three. Uh, but the top lot, the number two lot, and then numbers four and five are all complicated watches from Patek Philippe? Minute repeating. Yeah, true. Um Is that something that when you kind of saw all the watches together and everything had been valued, is that something that's surprised you or was it something you kind of expected in the back of your mind |
| Arthur Touchot | ? No, I think what surprises me more is in the same, you know, if if you extend your list a little bit to top 10, you have F.P. Journ, you have Philippe Dufour, you have Richard Mill, Grubel Forzay, Audemar Piget. You know, I I saw recently uh uh uh an image uh that um a collector posted on their social media and it was it was the catalog the retrospective catalog with i think it was 24 uh images of of the watches um and his Rolex on top of of of those twenty four and the caption just said where where are all the Rolexes? And I think Phillips has been accused so many times of having only Patek and Rolex. And this time we come out with a sale where you you know i Rolex is of course represented in the sale with um some very important pieces that have come out in the past 20 years. But um what surprises me more is the diversity of the catalog |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ue. Yeah, it's I agree. It's it's pretty diverse, especially once you break like maybe the top ten or fifteen. I mean, there's ninety five lots in this sale, and yeah, I mean granted the top 15 or 20 by price are are heavy on Patek, heavy on Richard Meal. Not super surprising for for me. Uh, you know, if you had asked me to kind of like guess, I think I could have nailed that. But there's some some wild watches in here and some watches that I I think are outside the box, but to me feel like they really define 21st century watchmaking. Things like the original Royal Oak concept. Things like the Grubble Four Z GMT. You know, these these are watches that to me are like quintessential watches from the last 20 years |
| Arthur Touchot | . Yeah, and the CW1 is so interesting because it really redefines you know, it's such a novel aesthetic for Oudemar Pi Gay |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It is and and in a funny way, it's it's already, like, you know, considering it's not that old, it it already feels really recognizable and it feels really quintessential. I mean that's the word I keep coming back to. But I also like that you guys went kind of outside the box here on a few. One watch that it literally made me laugh as I was scanning through the catalog uh is the Opus 11 from Harry Winston. I saw one of these watches in the metal like very early in my watch career. Uh, you know, I'd maybe been doing this less than six months. Uh and I remember looking at this and just being like, what the hell is this? Uh but that's so good. And I found that, you know, now like Don't you love that piece of it? It's so good. It's it's amazing. And and I love that like even all these years later, like looking at it on screen, my reaction's exactly the same. I'm still like, I I don't understand this watch. Like I just don't get it. Uh and not that I'm not into it. It's that I I like technically do not understand it. Uh and that's that's fun. Oh please |
| Arthur Touchot | don't ask me to uh explain it because I'm I'm definitely not a watchmaker, but it's so I I so you you you have seen it in action right yeah yeah yeah ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah it's wild it's completely bonkers uh but it's uh it's pretty pretty cool it's it's crazy to me that they that it was a 100 piece limited edition. Um like look look that is the thing that if you would ask me to guess, I would have told you they made ten of them. You know, right. Yeah, the fact that they made a hundred is is pretty pretty what pretty nuts |
| Arthur Touchot | . But that was the point, right, of the the Opus series was giving independent watchmakers an opportunity to flex, basically. Let's let's be honest. And show what they could do if they had not unlimited funds, but like the backing of a brand like Harry Winston. And I love the fact that it was even possible for you know to to to give this opportunity to watchmakers to express themselves because really at the end of the day it's an expression of uh uh of in ingenuity but um it's always stuck with me you know in independent watchmakers will always talk about their creations as uh ways of expressing themselves. And uh yeah, the the Opus 11 is is completely crazy. I did not uh I uh do not remember it being launched, but um uh it's it's it's left a quite an impression on on many of us in the in the watches team, I can tell you that. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. Yeah, I I you I like the use of the word expression too and and it stood out to me that you it seems like you all made an effort to cover the range of expressions from particular watchmakers and particular brands. So Groble Forzy is a great example. There's a And those in a funny way represent like kind of the two poles of of what Grubal Forzi does. You know, a superlative, time-only, non-turbillon wristwatch, and then a completely insane incline turbillon with a GMT and like just like as maximalist as you can go. And I I think having both of those watches in the sale provides a much better look at like the real content of the last 20 years and of of the personalities of these watchmakers, uh that you wouldn't get if you had only included, let's say, one of those two |
| Arthur Touchot | yeah absolutely I I agree with you those two watches they almost look like they were made by by different brands. You know, even down to the the case um shape is is different. One is extremely classic and the other one is the the the signature asymmetric uh case of of Grubel Force. But um for me for me personally it's so it's so much fun to see this catalogue because I you know, I see these pieces and I remember exactly when uh like where I was when I was presented the piece for the very first time uh and was able to cover it and and share the news of this piece coming out. So the the signature one is is one of those watches. And Grubel Force I think they were the they were one of the brands that really opened up my eyes into what you know super high end horology could look |
| Stephen Pulvirent | like. Yeah, no, I I I completely agree. They're they're one of those those brands that really like they're kind of definitional. They they really are instrumental in defining that whole that whole category. Yeah. I mean the last thing I want to touch on before before we move on to Geneva Geneva Sale twelve, um, because I want to make sure we get a little bit of time to chat about that too, uh, is is I'll I'll do a tiny bit of log rolling and say uh it definitely made me proud to see some Hodinky uh limited editions uh end up in the catalog. It's it's going to ask you about that watch and how you felt seeing it in the catalog. Yeah. Um I'm I'm pretty happy about it. You know, I think it's it's cool. I think, you know, there's there's two of them. I mean we have the the Tag Hoyer uh Skipperera, the Skipper, uh, and then we have the the Gronfeld and uh it's great. And I mean like I've been in the room when our limited editions have sold at Phillips, um and you know, feeling that energy and seeing that a thing that, you know, I don't really work on these projects. These are not a a part of my job really. So uh I'm not personally invested in that way, but I'm very personally invested in that like I see all of the hours and all the effort and and care that my colleagues put in. And you know, uh I'm just like when the skipper hammers like imagining like the look on our friend Louis's face and on our the rest of our team who who worked you know very closely and uh you know knowing the Gronfeld brothers like this watch was really a a passion project for everyone involved and you know obviously there's there's one way to look at it where you say, okay, I wish everyone who bought them wanted them and and wanted to hold on to them forever, but like I just don't think that's realistic. And I find it much more exciting to see the energy around people now years later finally getting the opportunity to acquire one, seeing all that pent up energy and excitement I I think is is great. And if you're gonna make a watch and it can elicit that reaction from people, like I I don't think you can ask for much more than that per personally. No, right? That's the point, isn't it? That's it should be fun and it should be exciting. And and again, like, you know, I was in the room when when one of the Laurent Ferriers sold uh I guess about a year, a year and a half ago. And like it was fun to see people bidding and trying to decide whether to take that next jump and you know kind of like the the gasps and the the deep breaths before the battle goes up. Like if you can make something that somebody whether it's a watch or anything else that makes somebody feel that way, it's a great that's a great thing to be able to like give somebody else. |
| Arthur Touchot | Yeah. No, I I I've I so I wasn't at Hodinki when the Gronfelt came out. Um and it's a shame because I would have loved to be uh able to follow all of the decision making that went into that watch because it it came out so nicely. But I do remember it's great. I do actually remember being in New York, one of my uh the rare times that I was able to spend, you know, a a few days, even a week at uh at the Hodinki headquarters. Um and I I remember seeing, you know, even like a couple of different prototypes. And I remember the moment when it was decided that this particular reference should be the one that would, you know, to go, you know, to go forward with. So it's so nice to be able to see it again, you know, at the office and spend so much time with it. That's one of the perks of being a watch specialist. You know, you get so much time with these amazing watches. And I I I have to say, if it's if you're a watch enthusiast, you know, it might not come as a big surprise, but working for an auction house is like the best place to be because you you suddenly, you know, you see the very, very best from every single era. And you do not even have the you know, during uh during the beginning of the pandemic, suddenly we were not able to go to the office. And so I wasn't surrounded by all these w beautiful watches anymore. It was just me and my, you know, pretty humble collection. And suddenly I was like, okay, I need to buy a watch. And I was in Chrono 24 every day. I'm like on all these websites. And I was like, I desperately need a a new watch. It's like I |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I felt it like void. Totally. Did you did you have the experience the first time you got in a room after being in quarantine for a while? Like the first time you got in a room and there was just like a tray with like six or seven really incredible watches, you were like sort of overwhelmed by it. It became kind of like hard to process. Yeah, it felt like uh things were were back to n you know, back to normal. Um Yeah. I had I had the same same reaction first time we we went back into the office to do a photo shoot and it was like, oh my God, it's it's so nice to be around these things again. You know, I didn't realize kind of how much energy I got from them. Uh and then it was it was so nice. |
| Arthur Touchot | From them and then from just being able to talk about them with with your colleagues right away and get you know get everyone's opinion and you know they they they these these little things |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Alright. So we're we're gonna do plenty of online coverage at uh at the dink about uh you know geneenevava g sale twelve uh there is it's a it's a larger catalog it's almost twice the size it's 179 lots uh again I think you and I could spend hours kind of pouring over the details. Um there's some really really, stunning watches in here and you know, some are usual suspects. Um, you know, there's a really great early submariner in the sale. There's a bunch of great Daytonas, Vintage Paddock, Modern Paddock, AP, Cartier, there's a great crash. Um but I I wonder for you, you know, when you're looking at it at putting together, you know, obviously with a team of people, but when you're looking to put together a catalog for a general sale, 179 lots, you know, somewhere between 150 and 200. How how do you think about composing that catalog? Like making sure that you you hit the right notes, that that it's the right mix, that there's the usual suspects, that there's unexpected things. How how how do you start to conceive of that |
| Arthur Touchot | ? Yeah, sure. So I I really think this is a a a question for for the head of the sale, Alex Gottby. Um because he really ha he is the the only person who has like a a a full vision of of what is potentially being consigned, what's already been confirmed, what he would like to complete the sale. So as a specialist, the best that you could do is is bring forward the watches that um have been offered to you with the estimates that you know that have been agreed with the with the consigner. And then it it's really a team effort and uh aga again I feel really privileged to to uh have this this experience at Phillips. I you know I have no idea where how it how it works elsewhere but um we really work hard as a team to be able to offer the very best at the end of the day. So if that means that there are two watches, they're ex you know, they the exact same reference, they're offered roughly the same condition and they you know they either both have accessories or both don't have accessories so it's it's really like a a a pretty fair matchup you're gonna go for the one that it is is in better condition and just offers a little bit more to to a potential uh buyer. And and that's just that's just the way it is. If if it's not the watch that you that you're putting forward, it's not a problem at all. You know, there's no competitiveness about it. Uh we really just want to be able to be proud of the final catalog |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . And do you do you have any personal favorites from the catalog? Are we talking about the the the Geneva catalogue? Yeah, the Geneva, the Geneva Cat |
| Arthur Touchot | alog. Well, you know, it it's really hard for me to ignore the historically important watches, the ones that that are at the top of the billing. Um as someone who likes to picture myself buying one of the watches in our cells, I I have to say I'm I'm a lot more interested personally in some of the less headlight headline grabbing watches. But if you take, you know, the twenty five, twenty three, for example, the in pink gold. Uh I've been at Phillips for for three years and I've only seen a few of the these. So whenever one comes up at auction, I |
| Stephen Pulvirent | get super excited about it. I do think it's interesting that Patek world timers are the top estimated lots in both sales. You know, obviously one is modern, one is vintage, one is a minute repeater, one is not. Um, but uh I I think is uh that has to be a coincidence, right? Like that isn't something you guys set out to do, is it? No, no, total coincidence. Okay. I figu I figured it was a happy accident. No, I should say that it was uh it was absolutely planned that way. Yeah, it was a master a master stroke. Um cool. Well I I think, you know, again, I would I would recommend everybody who's listening take a look at both of these catalogs. Um you'll hear this ahead of the sales, so you'll have plenty of time to take a look. See if there's anything you want to bid on, anything you're you're interested in. Hit us up and let us know if there's any watches you want to learn more about. Luckily, uh, I I know where to find Arthur, so if uh we need we need more details, Arthur we'll uh we'll track you down. But uh yeah, the sales are taking place in Geneva November sixth, seventh and eighth. But Stephen if I |
| Arthur Touchot | could talk about just one last watch because I you know, I talked about the the top lot of course and in in a way that's uh uh it it's so terribly obvious of me I'm almost ashamed. Um but you know, you know, we because we've we've worked uh we worked a number of years together and and I was I would always get super excited about Bahegue. Um has always been one of my favorite uh watchmakers, possibly because it was the first one on my radar. Um and we have in the Geneva sale a beautiful yellow gold chronograph from 1960. And I think this is one of those watches that it, if you were flipping through the catalogue, because of the watches that we th the the you know, some of the watches that we have, it might not be one that you you s you stop on. Uh but Pegge was just simply not making many of these chronographs in the 1960s. Like they're better known for the type 20 military chronographs, which are super popular. But for me, this watch is everything I love about Brege uh in terms of its design, the coin edged uh case, uh the beautiful blue tachymeter scale, uh the proportions are just right. You know, it's uh it's it's a watch that's around 35 millimeters. And the condition of the piece is excellent. And so I s I get really excited when I see a a watch like that. Um, you know, i in in one of our catalogues. That's awesome |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I think I think vintage bregay is an uh I think vintage bregay is is one of the most undervalued and and uh overlooked categories in vintage watches. I mean like you said they just weren't making that many pieces, uh especially of the dressy stuff and uh it's it's incredible. I mean it's really like top, top, top flight watch making. Um so yeah, that's that's great to hear. I'm I am not at all surprised that that is one of your uh your favorite picks from the sale. What about you? I I have to ask you what which which watch on the Geneva sale do you Which watch from the Geneva sale? Um it's hard to say. I mean there's there's a lot of really great pieces, but I'm I'm gonna be kind of boring and go with a blue chip answer. Um there is a 6204 submariner, an extremely early submariner. And it's in really honest looking condition. Case is in good shape. Dial shows its age, but it's got that the like waffle honeycomb dial. It says Samariner Perpetual right above the three and uh nine o'clock markers. It's very strange. Uh it's missing some loom, whatever. I just think it's awesome. And like I think this is this is one of those watches that is like such a low-key flex, uh, and if it sells in its estimate range, like I don't know. I I don't think you can find a more interesting submariner in that in that price bracket. Um, I mean sure you can go like explorer dials, you can go big crown, whatever. Like this is a small crown, like a very small crown. Um and if it sells in the the sixty to a hundred and twenty thousand dollar range, I I honestly think that' thats's pretty good value at that at that price. So yeah, it's boring, it's a Samariner, but I I think it's a pretty special one. And you you never see these watches. Like you just never see them. I think I've handled maybe one or two. I mean, when we shot reference points, uh I definitely saw one. I can't remember ever seeing another one. So like, you know. And the fact that there's also there's a 6202 turner graph also in the sale. Um and then a really wild um, you know, 6200 with a this like insane tropical dial. Like if if you're some mariner hunting, like this is, you know, it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel here, but it's an expensive barrel. Um but it's they're they're there and the fact that you guys were able to pull them together I think is pretty pretty impressive. So I'll I'll I'll go I'll I'll keep everybody either happy or furious with me and and go Rolex submariner here. Cool. I'll I'll let the team know during the next interest meeting that we have strong interest. Perfect. Please please do. Um please do and then uh find out find out what my uh if if I'm getting a bonus at the end of the year this year and we'll uh we'll we'll talk. Um I I think I'd need an advance on a couple years salary to make that happen, but we'll uh we'll we'll see what we can do here. |
| Arthur Touchot | No, but I I think the point of this catalog, you know, uh one thing that I'm I'm one thing the team is really proud of is that our catalogs try to as best as we can, you know, with everything that we discussed in terms of the the the control that we have over consignments, we try to offer something for every watch collector. So there's a pretty strong representation of brands, eras, styles, and price points. Because we want collectors to be able to see the catalog and and want to participate for for for for the watch that that you know uh that corresponds the best to them |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah I think that's I think it's a great perspective. Um and I think it definitely it definitely comes through. I'm gonna go ahead and call one more thing out here. I think some of the sleepers of this sale are gonna be the paddock 96s. So for people who don't know, the the reference 96 was the very first Calatrava. Um, and it's you know, arguably one of the most important, I think actually, inarguably one of the most important watches Paddock ever made. Yeah, I was gonna do that. It's small, it's tiny, it's 30.5 millimeters, so it's it's little. Um, I still think it wears great personally. I've worn one before. They're they're super cool. It's this really nice kind of old school look. They came in basically every conceivable combination of case and dial bracelets straps whatever um and paddock made them for quite a while there are by my count and I might be off but by my count there's five of them in this sale and every single one of them is interesting. Sector dials, salmon dials, two-tone dials, like just really really weird stuff. Uh like none of these are standard. Yeah. Double sign, platinum.ble Dou signed. Yeah. It's so these are watches that are are again, they're a little bit niche, but I think if you're looking for something cool that's also historically interesting, um and not for some of them not totally insane prices. Um I think it's a it's a cool thing to look into and it uh it kind of surprised me to see, you know, five of them in the same sale, but I I think it's it's a cool move and I think you know you'd be hard pressed as a consigner to like or as a uh as a seller to like turn down consignments of any of these, you know. Uh it'd be hard to say like I didn't want one of these in my sale |
| Arthur Touchot | . Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and the the 96 is the is a watch I guarantee you're gonna get uh compliments on. You know, there there are some watches that um in a way we've intellectualized and and we understand why they're awesome. But if you're not necessarily part of you know if you're not uh part of our world you might not get and I I've seen some amazing watches be turned down really quickly by someone who doesn't understand watchmaking. The 96 is the complete opposite. Like you will receive compliments on that watch every single time in any kind of uh dial variation, metal, whatever. It's just a absolute icon |
| Stephen Pulvirent | , a classic piece. Yeah. I typically hate the adjective classy. Uh I think it's usually used to describe things that are the opposite of that. Uh but this is just it's just a classy watch. Like it like you throw this on with like a nice sport coat and like a crisp white shirt. You just look like a million bucks. Um, you know, it helps if the watch is platinum, it helps if it has a sector tile. Like those things don't hurt at all. But um yeah, that's awesome. You know, Arthur, it's been great chatting. I think we could, you know, keep picking favorites from this catalog, whether it's the Longas or the Tutor Home Plate or some cool mill gouses. Uh, you know, there's quite a few things I noted down as as things that caught my eye. Um, but I think people should check the catalogs out for themselves. This is gonna go live uh ahead of the sales so people can can do their own investigating and uh if people have questions they should let us know and we can uh hit you up for uh for more answers as the as the sales approach. So thanks man. This has been this has been great and uh I hope we can I hope we can catch up uh in person soon. I hope whether it's in New York or Geneva or Paris or somewhere else. Hopefully we can uh sometime soon the world will calm down a little bit and we can have a beer, talk about watches. |
| Arthur Touchot | I hope so. It's so nice to be back on Hooding Gi. I have to say one of the craziest experiences that I've had in Geneva um it was like very early on, uh, just discovering the neighborhood. I I went to uh get a a haircut um at like the you know the closest uh hairdresser I could find. And and and I'm sitting down and this gentleman sits down next to me and it's it's towards the end, you know, I've got short hair, it doesn't last very long. Uh and he's looking over at me through the through the the window, you know, the glass window. And he's looking at me a bit strangely. I I'm not really sure what's going on, but it doesn't really matter 'cause i it's it's uh it's at the end. Uh so I'm about to get up and and a as soon as I do, I hear Are you Arthur Touchau? I turn around and say, Yes. I love Hodinky. I've seen all of your videos. And to me, that was just insane. Insane. So continue continue the great work. Thanks, ma'am. Really, really appreciate being on on the podcast. And yeah, I I hope we um we can see each other soon around beer. I know that you're a beer guy, like John. I'm also a beer guy, so um Perfect. That as soon as |
| Stephen Pulvirent | we can. Awesome. Thanks, man. Have a good one and uh good luck with the sales. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Steven. |