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Author, Podcaster, And Menswear Enthusiast Pedro Mendes

Published on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:00:26 +0000

We talk old Seikos, custom sport coats, and a whole lot more.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent sits down with Pedro Mendes, a multifaceted author, podcast producer, and journalist. The two discover an instant connection despite never having had an extended conversation before, having been introduced by legendary menswear writer Bruce Boyer.

The conversation covers their shared obsessions with menswear and watches, particularly Seiko. Pedro shares his journey into both worlds, explaining how becoming a father motivated him to develop a more mature sense of self through clothing and personal style. Both discuss the importance of making mistakes, learning about quality over quantity, and developing patience in a culture that prizes instant gratification. They explore the concept of letting possessions age and develop stories rather than constantly chasing the dopamine hit of acquiring new things.

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Seiko and Pedro's work producing a podcast called Teamistry for Atlassian. The first episode of the new season explores the fascinating internal competition between Seiko's two main manufacturers—Suwa and Daini—in the mid-century period. Pedro clarifies common myths about this era, including the真 story behind the 1968 Neuchâtel chronometer competition cancellation and the actual relationship between the two factories. He explains how this research deepened his appreciation for his own vintage Seiko watches.

Throughout the conversation, both men reflect on the deeper meaning behind material objects, how enthusiasm for things like watches and clothing can lead to self-discovery, and the importance of mentors like Bruce Boyer in helping them approach these interests with joy rather than stuffiness. The episode concludes with Pedro discussing his current favorite watch, the Seiko SPB-143, and how it provides him with a sense of grounding during difficult times.

Transcript

Speaker
Pedro Mendes What I've been thinking about, and I I talk a little bit about it in the book, is that we have to counter the dopamine hit of getting something new. That feeling that you get from something that has a story, that has some age to it. It's not the same as the dopamine hit. Let those things age and become a part of you and get a story, and then you have a different kind of wonderful feeling that you get from it
Stephen Pulvirent . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinki Radio. You know there are certain people who when you meet them, you just click with them? Well, this week's guest, Pedro Mendez, is one of those people for me. Pedro and I were introduced by a mutual friend, the legendary menswear writer Bruce Boyer, but this is the first time we've had a real extended conversation, anything beyond a few Instagram DMs here and there. Pedro's a multifastid guy. He's an author, he's a podcast producer, he's a journalist, and a whole lot more than that. And as you'd expect, we cover a lot of topics in this episode. We cover everything from menswear and how we both became obsessed with clothes, to our love of watches and specifically Seiko, to our broader relationship with things and how we value the most important things in our lives, material and otherwise, of course. Pedro's clearly somebody who spends a lot of time thinking very seriously about these non-serious things, and I'm always a big fan of that. But there's one more thing special for this week's episode. Pedro mentioned to me that he's the producer of a podcast that he makes for the productivity software company at Lassian. And that show is called Teemistry, and it premieres today, the same day that this episode premieres. And the first episode of this new season of Team History is all about Seiko. Specifically, it's about their two main manufacturers, the Sua and Diny manufacturers, in the mid-century, and how the two of them had this sort of internal competition that created a really unique atmosphere and platform for innovation. I thought I knew this story. It turns out I didn't know nearly as much as I thought I knew. And I think if you're interested in watches, this is an absolute must-listen. So without further ado, I'm gonna let Pedro take it from here and let's do this. This week's episode is brought to you by Zenith and the new Defy Midnight. Stay tuned later in the show for my conversation with Zenith's Director of Product Development and Heritage, Roman Marietta. For more, visit ZenithWatches.com. Hey Pedro, good to see you. Good to see you, Steven. Thanks so much for uh jumping on the
Pedro Mendes call today and coming on the show. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for the invitation as a as a fan and a listener since episode one. It feels uh it feels very special to be here
Stephen Pulvirent . That is very kind of you to say, especially as a uh fellow fellow podcaster and producer. It's uh it's always nice to to hear that. Um it's kind of funny actually. I mean I realized I guess when we started talking about doing this that you and I had never actually met before, which is kind of funny since we we have so many mutual connections uh and kind of existed in the in the clothing world, uh, you know, even outside of watches, kind of at the at the same time. Um I think most people who listen know that I was I was in the menswear journalism space before watches. But uh yeah we have a a good mutual friend in uh Mr. Bruce Boyer.
Pedro Mendes Exactly. And he has been wanting to get us together for a while. Of course, you know, I'm in Toronto. You're in New York. I think if all this stuff hadn't happened, uh we would have met in person earlier this year because I was planning to go down there. And uh you know, and then Bruce has the he just loves to get people together, you know, for for people for people who don't know, Bruce Boyer has been writing about menswear since the early seventies. He's really he's really the guy who started this entire genre of writing about menswear from a historical point of view, uh a social impact point of view, um, but also, you know, joy and expression. Um, you know, he he doesn't come from the fashion world, actually comes from an academic world. Right. And uh, you know, and then he just loves he loves getting people together, people of the same, you know, sam
Stephen Pulvirent e background, same, same mindset. Yeah, it's funny. I met Bruce through somebody else really early on when I I was like just starting a menswear blog. I was in college when I met Bruce, like and and I honestly don't think I would be doing this uh as as a career without him. Uh he's he's just one of those people uh so encouraging and like you said loves introducing people and he comes at at the world of clothing from a real place of of joy and fun. Uh and I think it it kind of like as like a twenty year old interested in handmade suits, like that could be very easily end up being stuffy and off putting. Uh and he just made the whole thing seem so inviting and exciting and like something I had to be a part of. Well, a a a major moment
Pedro Mendes in my sort of wardrobe life was a few years ago, I guess this is going back maybe eight years, you know, to put this on blog, they had a video series and they did an interview with him, and it was one of the first times that I heard him talk because I'd I'd heard of his books and I'd seen some stuff online. And he talks about how he realized when he was pretty young, that he was always going to be a little bit rumpled. He was he was never gonna be able to p to pull off that perfect prim look, right? And so he didn't even try. He was like, ah, you know, if a button's undone, if something's a little bit wrinkly, if something's a bit out of place, that's just gonna be my that's gonna be my thing. And then, you know, then he went to Italy and he saw how that can be done done as an art, right? Right. The whole Spresatura thing, which by the way, he coined that phrase in uh in menswear in the early 70s. Um and so that inspired me to, yeah, to not feel that pressure that I had to look a certain way, that I had to obsess over the I mean we're both into clothes, we're both in the watches. We obsess over small details. We can't we can't help that. But you know, but yeah, but I but uh but you know we wouldn't keep me up at night and and to get to start feeling the the joy and the possibility of expression that comes out of that was so liberating. And you know, I've thanked him I
Stephen Pulvirent 've thanked him again and again for that. Yeah, I think one of I mean you said obsessing, and I think that's a really interesting way to think about this. Like I I remember the first time I was at a Taylor shop with Bruce. Uh I was at Len Logsdale's shop in Midtown. Uh it was one of the first times I'd met Bruce, and I remember sitting there and, Bruce was ordering something from Len, and they were obsessing over like the exact gram weights of tweed, and you know, which the warp and the weft and like which color was going in which direction for the overcheck, and it was like this immensely nerdy, wonderful, like detailed conversation, pouring over exact place to put buttons, like really, really, really nerding out over this. And then like we went to go get lunch at there's a burger place just downstairs from Len's shop. It's like a fast food burger joint basically. Uh and we went down there and Bruce just like takes off the tweed jacket he's wearing and just like hangs it on the hook next to the stool, takes his you know custom shirt, rolls the sl just like kind of bunches the sleeves up so he can eat lunch and like that ability to really love it and obsess over the making of it and then just say like yeah but it's it's clothes and like I have to live my life and I'm not gonna not go eat a delicious hamburger for lunch because like, oh no, I'm wearing a jacket and like how am I gonna do like it's it's that kind of fun and that like give and take that I think really makes it work.
Pedro Mendes Well I think that that Bruce, I mean Bruce is in his seventies and way that his generation differs from our generation is they grew up with this stuff. And we did not grow up with this stuff. And for me, this also connects to watches that we spent such a a large part of our lives, everything was mass-made, it was relatively disposable. You didn't learn much about it, you didn't have to learn much about it, you didn't care for it, you didn't keep it for very long. So when we enter that world later in our lives, in our 20s, our thirties, whatever, we don't we we are kind of a little precious about it because we haven't lived with it. You know, we're we're learning about it. We're yeah, we we kind of focus on those details and stuff, but like the people that and and myself included will get a watch and then not wear it under certain circumstances. Because it's like right, oh what if it gets a little dinged or something? Like I remember my first pair of good leather shoes. You fear for that first crease yeah and and again previous generations would have been like what are you doing this stuff is made to be worn it's made to be lived in like aren't we the same generation that loves patina that, loves when things are are are lived in. Well, you know, the old older generation's learned you have to do that for like five, ten, fifteen years for the stuff to look like that. You have to live in it. But that's also what's great about it because then you get to live in nice stuff. And and now when I get that first ding on a watch, I'm like, okay, now it's mine. Now I have a memory. Like I have my my Seiko alpinist, there's a ding right on the beautiful, shiny, polished bezel from the Havana airport on one of my trips down there. So and that's it. That's you know what I mean? Like that that has value to me now as opposed to like, oh no, I
Stephen Pulvirent ruined it. Yeah. I I remember when I I had saved and I finally bought a vintage Rolex, I bought a GMD master, and I was able to find a really beautiful example. It was basically like not quite new old stock but like pretty close. Uh and maybe the second or third day I wore it I jammed it on a pole on the subway uh and put a scratch on the side of the case. Uh and that that day at work sucked. Like it was, it was it was a little brutal, but uh it was it was freeing, and there there really is something kind of liberating about that, right? Like at that point, it's no longer fresh, it's starting to develop patina, right? Like it's it's the process has started and you can you can enjoy that enjoy that process and how things evolve and how things get get character really. And it's just it's just so crazy and
Pedro Mendes surreal and weird that our generation has to kind of rediscover this stuff that old generations have known for such a long time. But again, it's why I'm I'm so thankful uh for Bruce, for his writing, for his videos, for everything he's done, because he is that connection for us to to that world
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, 100%. I mean, I mean, how did you how did you get interested in stuff like this in the first place? Like how did you become uh interested in in clothes and watches? Um, I've always I
Pedro Mendes 've always been interested in it to a certain extent. Um I just didn't know what I was doing. And so I was I was that kid in high school in a trench coat and a fedora. Yeah uh worn over a t shirt. Been there, done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you have you have a desire for this classic stuff, but you don't know where to get the the the good examples. You don't know how to combine them. You know, my my dad gave up on this stuff a long time ago, so he wasn't there to teach me. And so when I became a dad, um, the story I always like to tell is when I was putting my son to sleep, he was like maybe around nine months old, and he's staring at me in the way that babies do, like he's looking into my soul when he's probably just trying to pass gas. And I I realized I'm going to be his example of what a grown-up is. And at the time, I didn't know what that meant. Um, you know, my generation had been taught not to grow up and to just be an adolescent for as long as you can, and that being a grown-up um is a sellout or whatever. And at that moment I was like, no, I I want to be a good example to him. I want to, I want to know how to do things. I want to know how to, I want to build my sense of self, my sense of confidence, whatever that is. And I knew it was going to be, it was going to take a while. And part of it was I'm going to change the outside in the hopes that it'll change the inside. As superficial as that may sound. But I started, and I mean it was around the right time because the whole menswear thing was happening on the internet. So I had a place to go to learn. And so started changing my wardrobe, made a lot of terrible mistakes. But it had the effect that I hoped, which is I was now, you know, learning about stuff that was building my confidence. And, you know, I felt more like a grown-up. And I started to act more like a grown-up. And, you know, there was a transition period. Um, but eventually I just stopped thinking about that and then it just became, you know, the way I live my life or whate
Stephen Pulvirent ver. I love that. That's a that's a really great I I I think a lot of guys get into clothes uh in in various ways. That's not a story I've heard before. And I always love when like somebody has a story that's not the us one of the usual like five or six shticks. Um but I I I like that you said you made a lot of mistakes, and I think that's a critical thing, like whether it's watches or clothes or or whatever you're interested in, the ability to be interested in something, to have the whether it's confidence or ignorance in some cases for myself, um, to to just like kind of go head first and then figure out the mistakes later. And obviously when you're talking about watches and clothing, like yes, there are financial mistakes, but like the stakes otherwise are pretty low. Like you're not, you know, n nothing long term bad is gonna happen. But the ability to just like do it and and get interested and then reflect and say, like, okay, I wouldn't have done this if I if I could do it again, or I wouldn't or I'm just not gonna do that going forward. And I think that that ability is like a really it's a really important thing. Like it goes beyond the shallowness of whatever the thing is you're interested in, but that ability to like express yourself, reflect on it, acknowledge that something is either a mistake or something you don't want to do again, and then like grow from it. I don't know if that if that makes any sense. Well no, exactly
Pedro Mendes . I think it's the it's a process it that's the process of self discovery. Because in in doing things like, you know, my very first custom suit, you think, well, it's custom, I can do whatever I want. I can yeah, I can go nuts with all the features and so on and so forth and the fabric and but you're not really thinking about well what do I want and what image do I want to give out and and what really makes sense in terms of the way I live my life. This happened, it's funny, I went through that process with clothes. The exact same thing happened with watches where I wasn't thinking about those things. I was just thinking about beautiful objects. I was thinking about stuff I had seen other people had talked about or written about or whatever. And before long, I had, you know, a box full of pretty heavy chunky sport watches. Yeah. Which which were all very lovely. Um and I love love them for what they were. But when I looked at the rest of my life and I looked at at what I wear and how I live and really my sense of myself, they didn't match. Like it didn't it didn't really work. And again, that had happened. I think it it's very easy to do with clothes when you buy something out of context, you know, some cool looking shirt or jacket or something. But doing the work to be like, now hold on, hold on. What else do I own? Like, does this actually not match, but does it kind of harmonize with other stuff that I have? You know, Bruce always talks about the ideal is to wake up in the morning, just open your closet and just put clothes on and go and live your life. Because you've already done the work to figure out that all that stuff, it's it's good, it's good quality, fits you well, it all basically works together. Um but when you get stuff in isolation, that's when you're kind of like, oh yeah, I bought that because it was cool looking in the store. But that, you know, like my advice is always, always, always go for the plain thing. Go for the understated thing. Go for the I just got myself my latest watch is the is the Seiko SPB 143 that everyone is loving right now. And I did like the Gilt version. I did like the blue dial version, but I was like, you know what? If I get the basic one, the gray one, it is the one that I am going to love longest. And it is the one, you know, it's just it's a great watch. And that's it and nothing more. And and it was that was the lesson from the clothes, which is like, ooh, flashy orange suit. No. Just buy the dark brown. Because you're gonna love it. You're gonna wear it fore
Stephen Pulvirent ver. Right. Yeah, no, I think that's that's entirely true. I think I definitely had some uh sartorial uh purchases earlier early on or early ish on in my my journey in that world that I was so excited about when I got them and then never wore them or never used them. Uh and the stuff that was maybe not least exciting, but felt the least exciting maybe or felt the least adventurous, uh, is the stuff I enjoy and wear the most. I mean, like, I have two or three beautiful navy blue suits from two or three different tailors. And like they're not exciting. They're navy worsted wool suits. But they fit great. And I can wear them basically anywhere. And I wear them all the time. I have sport coats that are extremely beautiful from amazing world-class tailors in crazy tweeds with weird pocket configurations and half belts on the back and whatever. And like I I literally never wear them. I I have actually from a tailor uh I won't I won't check his name since I don't generally wear this garment too much, but it's technically like maybe the nicest piece of clothing I own. And it's it's a hunting jacket uh that I had made for a story I wrote a long, long time ago for the rake. And I wrote about the process of having this made, and it's from a tailor who specializes in sort of like old school English hunting clothes. And it's green with like a yellow and red over check. It's it's really beautiful. Uh, but it's like it's insane. It's like 22 ounce tweed, 23 ounce tweed. It's like you you can't wear it if it's more than 20 degrees Fahrenheit outside, 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside. It's loud. It basically basically wears me. Like it has more structure to it than I do. And it's a shame because it's an amazing piece of clothing, but it just sits Well and and the th
Pedro Mendes ing is I don't I don't want to also suggest that there's no place for that kind of expression and fun for sure and color. It really comes down to the individual, obviously. Like there are people. I mean, an early influencer for me was Andre 3000. Yeah. And I was just like, the stuff that he can pull off is fantastic. And even things like you know the fact that he starts his outfits with his trousers. I was like, that's an interesting idea. I'm going to think about that. Now I'm not going to wear a you know a bright green jacket and plaid pants. I'm not going to do that. It just I don't feel comfortable in that. That's not the look that I'm after. But at the same time, talking about understated colors and understated approach, it doesn't mean that you look boring. It doesn't mean that you feel boring. If the stuff is well put together and how you combine it. Like the point that I always make is that when I get dressed, I'm not thinking about that stuff. I'm not thinking about the rules and I'm thinking about how much joy I'm going to get out of wearing this clothes because it feels great. Right. Because it it it it feels right on my body, the fabric feels good, and the subtle things. And again, bringing it to watches, there are people who love, as you well know, watches with all sorts of crazy stuff on them and colors and case shapes and sizes and stuff like that. But there's other people who the tiniest little curve on a lug is enough to make them go,
Stephen Pulvirent oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Absolutely. And and I think that you've talked a lot about self discovery and I think that's a really important component of this, which is, you know, whether it's clothing, watches, cars, art, whatever, coins, stamps, like the process of collecting something and of being an enthusiast in something. I I personally think one of the most interesting things about that whole pursuit is the way in which it it actually you learn more about yourself than you learn about the thing you're studying. Uh and I, you know, I found this in in college and graduate school. I I studied, you know, the history of men's fashion from a more academic standpoint. And and that's always been something that fascinates me is is the way that like my interest in clothing has taught me way more about myself than it's taught me about like stitch counts and how to structure the internal canvas of a drape sport coat, you know
Pedro Mendes ? I I completely agree. I think the I think what it comes down to is that that takes time. It takes time to to learn, to try different things, and you know, just to learn about yourself. And our culture is not about that. It's not about patience. It's it's about I want something now. And then sadly we don't really learn that much about ourselves
Stephen Pulvirent if we stick to that. Yeah, I think I think that idea of patience and and learning is is fascinating and it it brings us to something I wanted to make sure we talk about, which is that you have a new book coming out, uh 10 garments every man should own. And I I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about kind of why that was the approach you wanted to take to writing a sort of menswear guide. Like there are a million great books out there about menswear. There's two million really bad books about menswear but uh I'm I'm kind of curious why this was the approach you you wanted to take for your for your contribution well I think part of
Pedro Mendes it was because it the the book is not intended for um folks like you to be to be to be direct. Like you know enough, you know far more than you would need to know. The book is really an introduction, an introductory guide. And even though it's separated into 10 garments, like 10 pieces that I feel are classic and sort of fundamental, that's really a framework for someone to learn about quality and to start the process of personal discovery. So even though there's a chapter dedicated to knitwear, there's a chapter dedicated to leather shoes, there's a chapter for trousers, there's a chapter for socks. You know, these are just basic things that I think everybody should have, you know, a good example of. But inside of each of those chapters, the point is, so what what actually, is quality? And can you determine it? And can you what are some you know strategies that I have when I pick up a garment in a store or I talk to somebody who's going to make something about how to say, like, what's actually worth buying invest,ing in, taking care of, whatever it is. So the book is is, you know, I'm I'm also, I also know that the people who are going to buy this book mostly are probably going to be uh women, uh, for men in their lives or men for other men in their lives chances are so i also wanted it to be as approachable as possible like like a uh a guide you can just pick up you can go from chapter to chapter and you know you can zero in on one section, you know, oh, I'm thinking of buying like suede shoes. How do I, you know, how do I even think about suede or how do I take care of it or whatever? You can just jump to that. But interspersed, lots of personal stories, experience, anecdotes, like way too much about my parents, because I learned a lot. I learned a lot through them. Um so it's a bit of a, there's a little bit of memoir mixed in there, but really and the funny thing is I started writing the book before the pandemic. And oh I guess it's not funny at all. But the uh interesting thing is, started writing it before the pandemic, a big stress in the book is about what do we really value? And how do we get away from a relationship with our clothes which is so disposable? Yeah. That I mean, the very first line in the book is that the world is drowning in clothes. And it feels connected to this, you know, what we've been talking about in terms of a culture that has no patience and we want everything fast. We also want it cheap. So I wanted to make people think about clothes the way we starting to think about food. You know, where is it from? What's in it? Um, who made it? Like what what are the ingredients? If we start asking those questions, then I think that'll put us on a better personal relationship with our clothes. Um I think the other thing though, the pandemic has taught us before the pandemic, you know, there was this idea of like what is the impact of the consumer? Yeah. And does does conscious consumerism work? The pandemic has taught us, it does not, that when we all shut down and we all stopped doing anything, I think there was like a 17% drop in carbon emissions. So that's I'm not trying to fool myself or fool people to think that this is going to change the world. However, it is a positive step in that direction, and perhaps it can be part, you know what I mean, it can start something that moves at a higher level because we know it has to be an international, it has to be corporations and governments who really start to make these things happen. But on a personal level, even if it's just, I want to feel that that deep, deep love and connection to my clothes that I might to other things in my life, and to feel the beauty uh of them. That's that's a positive. Like that's something worth going through
Stephen Pulvirent . And now a word from this week's sponsor. Last week I was able to sit down for a conversation with Roman Marietta, Zenith's director of product development and heritage, to talk about how the brand continues to build on the legacy of the El Primero, how watches like the DeFi collection build on this heritage, and some exciting news about new watches coming later this year. Here's our conversation. That's great. I mean, you're the head of product at Zenith. So what does what does that mean? What is sort of your role within the manufacturer? Uh I'm in charge of all the the
Roman Marietta developments, the the future development of the brands. I'm also taking care of the heritage. So it's a link between the past and the future. So it's a key uh key and very interesting position for for such a brand like like us, which is also I would say uh very much into uh innovation but also uh very faithful and respectful about our past. Uh but my daily role, uh my daily job is to uh take care of all the developments for the for the future of the brand, starting from either a design
Stephen Pulvirent or or movements or uh whatsoever. Yeah, I mean you mentioned that that part of your job is balancing the past and the future. And I think at at Zenith that's a really interesting interesting thing to do. And and specifically because Zenith is best known for the El Primero chronograph caliber. That's kind of the the core of Zenith and it's I think the thing you you all are best known for. But you actually make this this full suite of watches, everything from, you know, time only watches up to extremely complicated watches. So I wonder how would you describe Zenith's identity outside of the El Primero
Roman Marietta ? We do not want to separate ourselves, our identity from the El Primero, of course. It's I mean this movement is um inextricable from our DNA and history. I mean, it's such a great story back in 1969. And we do have the chance to work with such an incredible movement since more than 50 years now. We are also working on his constant development and improvement. Uh this is a continuous story, so it's very very important for us to to keep on going with the
Stephen Pulvirent other. become I would say a a bigger and more high profile part of Zenith over the last few years is the Defy collection. And the Defy has this like this really special case shape and sort of form on the wrist. And I was wondering if you could sort of describe that for us and then tell us where this sort of unique profile uh comes from
Roman Marietta . You have to come back to uh I would say 2016 in just in between uh uh two different presidents we had uh Aldo Magada uh I would say the end of Aldo Magada and the beginning of Jean-Claude Villet um we were in the in the quest of creating a new modern icon for a new type of audience without leaving our aficionados on the side. also express and challenge the the boundaries of innovation where we can demonstrate that we are able to do some very technical uh movements, but also with it within an uh an approach uh very uh innovative, contemporary and modern. Uh as soon as we we found the right the right the right case, the right proportion, everything went from there by creating the the the fastest chronograph on the market, this 100 of a second and then we were of course looking of also to to have a a time only one with day so the defy classic came just a year after and and and then we introduced different uh materials, uh playing with colors on the movements. So we we also um proved that uh we were able to do some um very innovative uh technologies and uh had had some new uh new uh freshness i mean some a bit of freshness in uh in our collection.
Stephen Pulvirent So yeah, I I love that in the Defy collection, like you said, you you experiment with color, you experiment with materials, we get things like blue ceramics, combinations of black and white ceramics. Is is there a particular reason why you thought that this collection was sort of the right the right platform and the right place to sort of experiment with these these bolder styles, these bolder materials
Roman Marietta ? I it was it was really made on purpose at the very beginning. We we were really searching for a platform on which we can really I mean play like like this collection for for for us especially at the product development is is a playground uh basically. I mean it's something uh where I mean at that time with uh with Jean-Claude Bivet we we discussed it and we said I mean we really we really need to have fun with this collection. We need to develop it in a way that then we can really play with the different components, elements, materials, uh even with the movements. So this is exactly what we have done and the the the the the the design process have been really um done
Stephen Pulvirent in that direction. I I have to say the Defy ceramic pieces are s are some of the watches that surprised me most on the wrist over the last few years. You know, when I saw them, I I didn't know quite what to think. And the first time I put one on my wrist, I remember just being sort of sort of wowed. Um you know, so it would it wouldn't be a conversation with Zenith or about Zenith if there wasn't some sort of news about the El Primero. And uh I've heard uh I've heard I would say more than rumors that there's a special piece coming for the North American market later this year. Um is there anything you can tell us about that piece, anything you can kinda tease for us there uh before the official launch? Yeah, yeah of course i mean you have good um good
Roman Marietta sources um yes absolutely we will we will uh we will introduce um in uh in october uh a brand new model which will be um uh in the revival uh line of uh chronomaster uh if you have noticed we have created uh dedicated uh uh a whole line for creating some revival some icons from our history. And this new model for North American markets will be available in this line. So you can imagine pretty much which kind of case or case shape it could be. We have worked with our team in the in the US. It would be a limited edition, exclusively available for the customers in a North American market, so USA, Canada. Um, the design is very much inspired from the 60s, and as soon as you will see it, it it will will uh be obvious for you
Stephen Pulvirent uh to understand what we have done. That's great. I can't wait, uh can't wait to see the actual watch, and I'm sure we'll plenty of coverage of it and uh share it with our audience. But uh thanks, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us today and to give us a little bit of uh insight into what's going on inside the manufacturer and kind of the the thought process behind the watches. And uh yeah, we'll have I'm sure lots lots more stories to tell about Zenith uh through the end of the year and beyond. Thanks again to Roman and the Zenith team. If you want to learn more, be sure to visit zenithwatches.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. There are very few purchases I make uh that are not if it's a thing that you can have for a long time, I tend to try to find the version that I can. Uh I just tend to go deep on things and I think that's a thing I really learned from the pleasure of having clothes for a long time. I mean I'm pretty young but like I'm now at the point. Like I have some clothes that I've had and worn for a decade. And like that's a thing that, you know, when I was 20 seemed unfathomable to have something for 10 years, you know. And now I feel like they're just starting to get good at 10 years. Uh, and that's a great feeling. And it's it's kind of contagious, right? Like if you feel it with a sport coat or a pair of shoes, you you want it with uh your watch. You want it with the you know, m I happen to really like ceramics, right? So like the dishes that my wife and I eat dinner off of. Like it's crazy to think, but like the, you know, plate that I ate my English muffin off of this morning, like, at some point, like I will probably have kids who eat their breakfast off of that plate. And like, that that's's a really infectious thing. I guess if you're the sort of person who's predisposed to be interested in that sort of thing, but it's it's really enchanting and I think watches are a way in which that can kind of like live through multiple people, which is one of the things that first got me personally interested in in vintage watches, was this idea that like not only like if I if I buy a sport coat that's used, I'm gonna have to have it tailored down. It's probably never gonna fit quite right. It's like it's not gonna be quite right. So, so that wasn't gonna work as a sort of like longer tail thing. But a watch, like I I own multiple watches that are older than my parents. And like that's it's a cool thing to think about the lives these things lived and that I get to sort of contribute, I guess, to the lives of these objects. Well, I I that's really
Pedro Mendes cool because what I've been thinking about and, I I talk a little bit about it in the book, is that we have to counter the dopamine hit of getting something new. And that feeling that you get from something that has a story, that has some age to it. It's not the same as the dopamine hit. It's not as um, it's sort of like, you know, a really, a really, really well-cooked meal versus fast food. You know, fast food hits you in the face with with flavors and with whatever. But a well-cooked meal, it's sort of more like a slow burn for you to get that feeling. And I mean, that's it, that's what's one of the hard things is to tell people eventually this will feel amazing. You have to, you have to give in. You have to stop buying so many things to get that feeling. But let those things age and become a part of you and get a story. And then you have a different kind of wonderful feeling that you get from it. That in my you know, I I think it goes deeper, I think it's more enriching than the dopamine hit of getting new stuff. And and that's why I mean watches are really tricky that way because you know, again, previous generations wouldn't have as many watches as we own. They wouldn't talk about them the way we do or whatever. And it is it is that one is a challenge to to to find a piece to hold on to it long enough that you get to that point because there's always that next, that new release. Yeah. And that thing that might just be a little bit better. But then you never build that relationship and it never stays with you. My I mentioned it earlier, my Seiko Alpinist is one of the first like nice watches I got. That's the reason I kept it and I didn't flip it. It' becauses I I stopped myself. Um, I have an old Elgin from 1938. I inscribed the back as a way of saying, Don't you dare sell this. That's great. Like hold on to it so that you can do it. It's it's that one
Stephen Pulvirent I struggle with. I really do. Yeah. That's interesting. I like the the idea of having having to like impose that discipline on yourself, like knowing knowing it, still having the impulse that you don't want to have, but kind of like training yourself to to to stay with it and kind of like stick to your guns. Yeah
Pedro Mendes . I mean it's a sort of it's sort of a sad it's a sad thing that we have to that we have to do it and and that's that's just a reality that we have to, you know, the stuff is a little too easy to get for for you know, uh thankfully I have the ability to get this stuff, but I you know, you do have to eventually stop yourself and be like, no, no, you have enough
Stephen Pulvirent . Now let it age. Exactly. Uh when when did you I mean we got a little bit of your clothing origin story, but when when did you get into watches? When did that kind of like show up on your radar
Pedro Mendes ? Um it's come in various stages again. You know, like I I was when I was about eight or nine years old, my grandmother gave me a Timex um that I absolutely loved because it was so it was like a man's watch. It wasn't a kid's watch. Yeah. And and I mean, as much as I dreaded the fact if I'd put it down for a couple of days and I had to change the date, it would mean having to wind the thing until the skin on my fingers was coming off, you know, to get the goddamn date window. Like quick set dates. Wow. Never mind all the other technological advancements in the world. Quick set dates. Anyway. Um so I love that watch. And then and then of course, you know, the quartz thing happened and this watch thing happened and watches sort of came in and out, but they were all rel again, they were disposable. They were stuff that was kind of I was thinking about how in the early 2000s I had sort of fashion-y type watches that kind of looked like the watches that I now have. But they were they were simulations. They were inexpensive, you know, simulations of good watches, of of proper watches. Um, it wasn't until maybe five years ago, six years ago, I was working with a couple guys who were really into watches and they started showing me what they have and talking about it. And at the time I was like, Jesus, three hundred dollars. What was wrong with you guys? Yeah. And and that wasn't even like then the guy brought a grand seiko in one day and I was like, I don't even understand what's going on. Um and then I saw the Seiko alpinist and I was like, hold on a second this is a price I can just barely barely allow to happen um and it and it was it it had this combination it's kind of wrong. L theike gold, the gold hour markers on a s on a stainless steel, you know, watch. Like there's something not white right about this, which I've since discovered is part of the joy of Seiko. Um and that really is what started it. Yeah. And you know, from then, you know, it it just again, it just snowballs, right? And again, because like with clothes, there was an online community. You know, there there was there was Hodinky. Th wereere other blogs and there was an opportunity to learn and to read and to advance. You know what I mean? And then I went through the process of, you know, buying and flipping and so on and and learning more about myself and and learning more about watches to the point where, you know, eventually buying watches I never thought I would have spent that spent that money on. My
Stephen Pulvirent wife can't listen to this. But um what uh what what do you remember as a watch where you just like you really struggled with it and then you took the leap and you were like, okay, we're we're over this hurdle. Ah, the one that sort of broke the um and it doesn't and it doesn't have to be a price point thing. It can also just be like, okay, now now I'm really in it. Like this is no longer a casual thing
Pedro Mendes . You know what? I think it was very recent. Um I had been buying on and off for a while. I had a few, but last summer I had decided, okay, that's it. I'm going to save up and I'm going to get myself a JLC reverso in in maybe three, four years or something. So I'm not going to buy any more watches. I'm not going to do anything else. And then all of a sudden, I saw the limited edition Seiko TikTok watch that came out last year. And I was like, oh my God, it's like kind of like an explorer mixed with the alpinist, it like it has all the things that I want based on the photos. And at that moment, I was like, no, I'm not the guy who's going to save up and buy one watch. I I still need to explore, I still need to get more watches. And then I got the TikTok, and I was terribly disappointed. That they yes, well, you know, I discovered that it's a pretty standard off-the-shelf watch that Seiko does and if you can order a minimum of three hundred they'll they'll kind of you know change it however you want. Okay. And and holding it up to the alpinist, I was like, no, no, no, no, no. They haven't done the kind of work that they can do in terms of the case shape and design and finishing. It just wasn't up to that level. And that's what I was like, uh-oh. Uh-oh. I'm seeing stuff that I had not seen before. Yeah. And and it was really the first time where I was like, oh, case shape, case design. Like again, like with clothing early on, you see, you know, maybe you see a fabric or a pattern or a length or tightness or something. But it takes years and years and years and years for it to r to reveal to you. You start looking at the shoulder construction or or the way the lapels are finished or just the silhouette. You start seeing those things and when I had that Seiko I was like wait a second there's way more going on here than I thought that I can't just be like look at that beautiful dial that's what I want and so that started a whole flood I went into vintage Seiko and it just kind of went crazy from
Stephen Pulvirent there. That's what happens. What what is what is it over time that that has come to define a good watch for you? Like what what is it? I mean, you said you you started to focus on case shape and you really just wanted to admire the dial, but like at this point now in your in your journey, like what are the things when you're examining a watch that that kind of like make or break it for you since I know that varies kind of collector to collector. I mean one of the things
Pedro Mendes is um is the way that it's all is the balance the balance that is achieved between the case design the the dial, all the different elements. Um as I started to learn about uh Seiko's history and Tarotanaka and design and all that sort of stuff, I really started to pay attention to how all these things, even the way it reflects light. Um those matter a lot to me now than they used to. Um and even case um thinness. Uh I I early on discovered that that that anything past, you know, 13 and a half, 14 millimeters. It just it it it just doesn't work for me. The the as well balanced as other things can be, I love a thin, a thin case. Um and then the thing that I also like to add to that is some kind of story. Some kind of something that makes that watch um special beyond just what it is as an object. And it could be its own history as an individual item, it could be what it's based on or when it was made or whatever. All these things for me fit together. And then above all else, I mean, it's thinking about the life that I lead and the way I dress and and and and how I live and does it fit into those things. And so I am now buying a lot less. And even thinking about it used to be my head was turned by every new release. Now it's more just like yeah, I can see that, but it does it doesn't work for me
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's a good a good point in everyone's kind of like enthusiast slash collecting journey is that point where you you stop feeling the need to acquire everything you see that looks good. Like that point where you can say like this is a beautiful thing. It's a great object. I I love it in theory. I don't need it. And like I'm not even gonna waste my time and energy obsessing over that part of it. But like I can enjoy looking at pictures of it on the internet and seeing it occasionally on someone's wrist. I'm like, that's enough. Like that, that's all I need out of this thing
Pedro Mendes . You guys had a moment uh early on in the pandemic. You had Jack on, and I think you were answering uh listener uh voicemails. Oh yes and somebody had written in talking about Buddhism and talking about acquisition and you know this sort of stuff. And Jack had this great, you know, just all of a sudden, you know, you guys stopp taledking about movements and horology and all this sort of stuff and it just became about us and people and what we need and objects and just that statement that, yeah, I can see something beautiful doesn't mean I need to own it. Yeah. I know that. Of course I know that. But it is great to hear that every once in a while, that reminder of like this isn't a race to to catch all the Pokemon. Like they're they're there, they're lovely
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah. No, I I agree. And I I think there's a story Jack has told before multiple times, and I think I told it on he or I told it on that that episode of the show, but I'm gonna tell it again because why why not I'm allowed? It's my show, I get to do what I want. Um but uh it's one of my favorite stories and one of the one of honestly I've known Jack for you know almost a decade now and it's it's one of the the things he has told me that I think about the most, which is that he had a friend who was really interested in in Japanese swords and sword making, uh, and couldn't afford to collect them at a serious level. He couldn't buy anything really kind of world class. And so instead of collecting lower end swords or you know, saving up years and years and years to buy one to put on his wall, he instead would save up and every year he would take a trip with his family to Japan, and he would build an itinerary to go see the greatest swords in the world at all of the different museums and the sword k andnife makers there. And that was his way of collecting, was experiencing them and building that that sort of those memories and getting to do all the research and meet in some cases the craftspeople who make them instead of having to have the physical object in his home. And that's a thing I think about uh honestly on a on a daily basis. Um you know, doing what what I do for a living and I I wouldn't be surprised if you feel the same way, is getting to encounter people and things on a daily basis at a super high level to me is is way more fascinating than owning a small collection of even very exceptional things could ever be
Pedro Mendes . I know, I know. It's it's it's a it's it's a value shift and I feel like it's something that you have to do over and over and over again. As much as you know you know it, it makes sense. It's so easy to get dragged back into the desire to to own and to possess everything. Um do a big purge and then it's like, well now I gotta fill it back up again. And uh it's it's just a constant you know it's a constant thing that that that you know we struggle with sadly because we can. I mean again past generations didn't have that problem. So it's like, well, we don't have the uh money or the space to put all this stuff. So we can think of it. But
Stephen Pulvirent we have to. Yeah, no, that's true. Uh we we've already touched on it a little bit, but I I know you're a big, a big Seiko guy. Uh and you recently did a Seiko related project that actually launches the day people will be hearing this, which I want to talk about in a second. But before we get into that, what what was it about Seiko that that seduced you? Because I I think you're definitely not alone uh in terms of people who are on or listening to this show, uh myself included, who are are kind of Seiko diehards
Pedro Mendes . I'll I'll be honest that it was it was a combination of uh a a good entry point, an easy entry point. Like the prices were approachable. That's definitely one of the things. And along with that price comes exceptional value, comes, you know, objects that have a history and, you know, a lot of finesse and a lot of fine work and thought that's put in put into them. Not their entire line obviously, but but there are those items in there that you can find that do that. So that was an easy road in for me. But the other big attraction for me is I've always been into Japanese culture, uh pop culture, anime manga. I used to do cosplay. Okay. Um yeah, there's a whole other Pedro Amendez out there if people are interested in discovering of me all sorts of uh costumes. Um I build scale models. Uh in my room here, there are dozens and dozens of robots and jets and all sorts of things. I I very early on I became obsessed with a show called G-Force or Gotcha Man that aired in the late 70s, early 80s. And so, you know, most of my life I've been fascinated with Japanese culture, Japanese storytelling, uh, Japanese way of life. And then when those two merged, when I when I had that again learning about Tarotanaka and the approach that Seiko took starting in the 60s, that's when my head just exploded. And I was like, this is literally made for me. This is something that I can I can see beyond even just the object. Now I'm starting to see the history and the philosophy and all these parts, all these things that are part of it, and this more personal connection that I have. So, you know, as much as I don't want to say I'm never going to buy any other brand, I'm never gonna buy any watch or whatever. Like I'm in I immediately feel a connection to Seiko that I don't feel with oth
Stephen Pulvirent ers. Yeah. Well it's it it's clear and it really comes through in in this thing you you produced, which uh, you know, for people who who don't know, you uh act as the the producer of this podcast called Teamistry, uh produced for Atlassian. Did I pronounce that correctly? Yeah. Yep, that's right. Uh which I think you you and I talked about this off air, but uh Hodinky is largely powered by Atlassian products. Uh without without Trello, sh shout out to Trello and to all of my colleagues who are gonna make fun of me for this. But uh without Trello, there would be no Hodinky, there would be no Hodinky magazine, none of this stuff would happen. Yeah, and shout out to Dakota, who currently manages all our Trello boards. But uh yeah, so you produce this this podcast, which is is not it's not about watches, obviously, right? Um, but you were able to kind of work it work it in
Pedro Mendes . Well, yeah, Team History, this is the second season of the show now. And, you know, because Atlassian, yeah, they they what they do is they make stuff for teams. And so the company that I work with, Pacific Content, we work with brands to create, you know, basically audio content that tells a story that you know connects the brands to people and you know connects to the what the brand is trying to do and the story they're trying to tell. And so with Atlassian, it was like, well, let's see, let's let's do a series where we tell stories about remarkable accomplishments throughout history and the teams behind them. Especially, especially if it's teams you you didn't even know were there. Like in the first season, the the the Fukushima, the people who stopped the disaster from becoming a total disaster in those first few days after the tsunami, or the women who helped to sew the Apollo moon suits. Um I kept trying to slip something in there about the Omega, but I the Speedmaster, but I never I never got it to that episode. Um but then going into season two, the the the approach of the show shifted to multiple teams. So let's tell stories where, you know, you know, we're not focused on the one team that did something, but in a scenario where there's multiple teams. And I had been listening to uh Beyond the Dial uh podcast and blog that I'm now uh writing for a little bit. Yeah. And they did a great uh uh episode with david flett, who's the resident Seiko uh expert, vintage Seiko expert, where he talked about this this thing about how the two factories that Seiko had were working against each other, were competing against each other in the 50s and 60s. And that's where a lot of their innovation came from. And I was like, wait a second, wait a second. I think there's a chance here for me to combine my job and my passion. You know, and I when I pitched it to the Alassian folks, they were like, this is perfect. Like, this sounds like the exact kind of thing that we'd love to talk about. And so I was like, in heaven, because it's like, oh my God, I get to, you know, one of the great things about being a journalist, and this happened with clothing as well. When you have that as an excuse to dig into something, you can actually call people up and ask them all sorts of questions. For sure. Yeah. Right. So I I, you know, it was it was such a pleasure to work on it, but especially um, you know, like you said, people can can listen to the episode, but anybody who knows a little bit about this era in Seiko history, there are um kind of like myths and misunderstandings about it that have spread across the web. And it was satisfying to finally get to the bottom of those. We interviewed somebody from Seiko Epson, who used to be the Sue Factory, who cleared up a lot of stuff. And one of the big ones that you often hear is that in 1959, Seiko split their factories to have them compete against each other. It's much more complicated than that. Basically, you had these two factories who were subsidiaries, like Sue was a subsidiary of Dyney. They were actually part of it. They were part of the same company. And they started, they created the Seiko Marvel, which was really the first in-house really groundbreaking watch in 1956. And it was at that point, because there were these competitions in Japan amongst different industries, that Seiko had office the Hitori family, were like, well, Dine, couldy could you come up with something like that? And so they went off and did it. And then all of a sudden it was like Sue was like, well, hey, we we can do better than that. And they started one after another, month after month, releasing watches to one up each other. In 1959, what happened was that Sue became an independent subsidiary. So, you know what I mean? It's it's kind of things get murky. Like it's easy to say, oh, they split them apart to compete. Well, not really. The competition had been going on for a while. And the the thing that I discovered was so interesting was the guy from Seiko Epson saying they were they considered themselves a family. And I've never seen this before where Dini was was was a son and Sua was the youngest son. So, you know, in a traditional society, the youngest son has kind of fewer responsibilities, so they can be a little bit more of a maverick and a risk taker, which is exactly what Sua became. Like they were the ones with like they were the ones innovating on movement design. Whereas Diney was like, no, no, no, no. We're just gonna we're gonna do the thing that's that works really well and is super reliable. Um I think the other the other big myth that I loved when I was able to to get to the bottom of, and I've heard this one many, many, many times, is that in in nineteen sixty nine sorry, in nineteen oh maybe it was in sixty eight, in Nichatel, at the chronometer competitions that were happening in Switzerland, that Seiko had been doing better and better every year and that was the year they were going to top the Swiss at their own game. And Neuchatel was canceled. And there's this there's this urban myth that it was a conspiracy to stop Sago from one-upping uh the Swiss. The truth is much closer to the fact that quartz movements were being introduced into the competition, and they were so much more accurate. It was ridiculous to have them in the same category. And and that's what ended up happening, because Seka went over to another competition in Geneva and they took every spot after fourth place. They were beat by quartz movements. Yeah. So they they had developed the best mechanical, but it it just wasn't a fair contest anymore. So so that was that was another one of these like they're they're exciting, you know, myths to to get caught up in, but you know, the real story, I think the real story is more interesting and
Stephen Pulvirent more, you know what I mean, more engrossing in a way. Yeah, totally. I mean I I you very kindly sent me a a preview of the episode so I was able to listen before we we chatted today and like again I do this all day every day and this is also an area of of personal interest. And I learned a ton of new things. I think I think everyone who's listening to this should go listen. We'll link it up in the show notes. Uh it should be live by the time this goes live. Um and yeah, it's super, super interesting and it really builds I think one of the reasons beyond you know uh fascination with Japanese culture in in other things I think one of the things that draws a lot of watch collectors either at the beginning or eventually to Seiko, is is the way in which the things they do are are so different from how the Swiss traditionally handle things. It's it's just a completely different mentality, a completely different cultural context, and and also just like technically a very different approach. And this episode just underscores that. Like these this story could never in a million years have come out of Geneva. It just couldn't. It would never happen. Uh, and and so I encourage everybody Seiko interested or not, like go listen to this. It's about thirty minutes long, a little bit over and uh I think I think people will really, really enjoy it. But uh I I do have to ask, you know, I know you you have a Seiko Belmatic in your in your collection uh that is a a Sua uh watch. Uh did this story have any impact on your decision to to pursue a watch from Sua in in that that era from the early 70s. Oh god, yeah. Are you kidding? Okay. Oh my god. I figured so. Ye
Pedro Mendes ah. I figured so. I think going into this, going into this, I already had a a King Seiko, but in the process I got myself a Lord Maddock from nineteen seventy seven. But then when the Bellmatic came along, you know, like the King Seiko is interesting because I actually have, you know, King Seiko was created by by Diney. Um but mine was actually made at Sue. Interesting. Because this was the period where they were brand sharing where where they were they were, you know, head office had kind of said, okay, okay, okay, enough with all the goddamn new watches. You're gonna you're gonna make them we're gonna tell you what to make and you're gonna go make them. Um but yeah when I saw it's even the the meaning of that little logo on on on the dial whether it's Sua or Diny that That means something to me now and I feel this direct connection to it. Um this the the thing that I researched and we couldn't fit it into the episode is all the stuff about design. That's right. And and Tarotanaka. That's the other the other sort of misunderstanding. Tarotanaka did not design the watches. He was in he was working in marketing at the head office, who only sold and marketed. He would give guidance to the designers at Sue and DINE. And starting in 1967, he actually started meeting with all the designers to kind of make sure they were all on the same page. But that's why you have pretty radical differences in design from Sua to Diney and you know interpretations of Tanaka's approach and and the grammar of design. That's why that happened. Because I never understood it. Because you'd see some watches and be like, uh, that doesn't look very grammar of design. Well, it's because they could kind of do what they wanted to, right? They were just led by by his vision on the outside. But yeah, having gone through that process and and the Bellmatic is is a birth year watch. So it's okay, great. Um,
Stephen Pulvirent you know, it's got all it's got all those things going for it. That's great. Yeah, I uh the reason that question came to mind is I definitely uh after listening to the episode definitely appreciated my uh vintage sewa uh a little bit a little bit more. It definitely now has has that little extra extra bit of meaning which is uh is great. But yeah, I I guess you know to to wrap things up since we're we're kind of running out of time here, I mean we we talked a lot about you know not pursuing the next thing but enjoying the thing you have now. So in instead of asking you what watch you're looking toward next, I I guess I wonder what watch are you spending the most time with now
Pedro Mendes ? It is definitely the SPB-143. Yeah. Um I've had it for just over three weeks. And I mean, I've had honeymoons with watches before. And it sounds cheesy and and and cliche to say, but this one's different. Um, but it really is. Like I feel kind of bad, but all my other watches, it's like they're borrowing time on my wrist yeah from the SPB because that's what what I want to wear every day. There's a there's a balance to it uh that feels so good to wear but then there's um you know, uh it's been a difficult, obviously it's been a very difficult few months, and the stress feels like it keeps building. And you know, the realization that we're not through this at all and that there's still so much more to come. And it could potentially get a lot harder before it gets any easier. And interestingly, strangely, this watch is something that that I look at, and I've heard this from a number of other guests that you've talked to. And there's a feeling of grounding and of security that I get from it. And I don't I don't, you know, I don't know if that's the the craftsmanship, I don't or the just the precision of the timekeeping or whatever it is or the little shininess uh that it has, but it it feels like something that I can count on. Yeah. Um and so it, you know, I I love the other watches and I come and go, especially the historic ones. But this one uh feels very, very, very spe
Stephen Pulvirent cial. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah, I think if if any object, whether it's it's a watch or a piece of clothing or whatever else you're you're into, can give you that, like that's that's a pretty amazing thing. And I think anyone who's you know, I I think it's it's not uncommon for people who are not into these sorts of things to think about them as, you know, shallow and materialistic and whatever. But I think anyone who's ever had that feeling when they they picked up an object or put on a piece of clothing or looked at something hanging on their wall, I think knows that that that that shallowness is itself shallow, that you just have to push past it. And there's there's really just so much more there.
Pedro Mendes Well and exactly I think what's what's happening here is it's it's not because it's a uh an expensive watch, well, relatively um it's all those other things. It's it's the history of Seiko, it's this era that I've that I've studied and gotten to know and the people from that time, what it represented for them, um, and then you know, the the role that it plays in my life and how I see myself in it, um, all of that stuff together. It isn't just, you know, uh a shiny object that that makes me feel nice
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, I totally agree. Well, th this was so much fun and you know, we ran a little longer than we originally anticipated, which is great. Um we'll link up to uh that episode of Teamistry so people can check that out and uh to your book, which comes out in March twenty twenty one, if I'm not mistaken. That's okay, perfect. Thank you. And uh yeah, and I recommend also everybody listening check out Pedro's Instagram account, uh, which is super cool. Uh so we'll link that up as well. Uh any any other uh log rolling you want to do before we uh we hop off
Pedro Mendes ? Yeah, we we talked about it very much at the top in terms of Bruce Boyer, something that that we did together. We did a podcast about his life basically in clothes. It's a six part podcast called Unbuttoned. And I'm super, super proud of it because you get to hear Bruce has written about clothes for years, but he's never written about himself. You get to hear his personal experiences and what it was actually like to be on Savo Row in the 60s. You know what I mean? And what it what shopping, shopping in Italy was like in the early seventies. It's I'm really, really proud of it. And uh and I think people should hear it just just to hear his amazing uh storytelling
Stephen Pulvirent . I completely agree with you. I'm actually supposed to have a call with Bruce next week just to catch up, uh, which I am so excited for. Uh, Bruce is truly one of my favorite people in the entire world, and I am I am so excited. And yeah, anyone who has not listened to Unbuttoned, please do. Um, you know, I'm very lucky, and Pedro, you're very lucky that we we get to be friends of Bruce's uh I think and we'll we'll have to get him on the show here sometime, but uh I think a chance for people to kind of hear him and how he thinks about things is is great. I I know they're bonus episodes, so it's probably sacrilege for me to say they're my favorites, but my two favorites from the series are the the beards and jeans episode uh and the Anderson and Shepherd episodes. Um you know I'm uh nice the folks at Anderson and Shepher ared are friends and and the history there is just unreal. And uh you know, hearing Bruce Opine about about the sort of like counterculture significance of having a beard, uh oh yeah. Which he's had for you know,, over half a century, I guess at this point. Uh is is incredible. It's just it's so much fun. It's great listening.
Pedro Mendes Absolutely. One of his best lines is that he was a uh he was a sheep in wolf's clothing. It's great. I love it. That's perfe
Stephen Pulvirent ct. Uh cool. Well thanks so much for joining us. And uh yeah, hopefully we'll we'll chat soon and when this stuff all ends and uh hopefully it's sooner rather than later, uh hopefully I can get back up to Toronto. It's been a long time and uh we'll uh we'll hang out. Oh, very cool. That would be great. Awesome. Cool. Well thanks so much and uh take care. Thanks, man.